Okay, folks, time for Hugo’s long Saturday night rant:
The adult entertainment industry in Los Angeles (the porn capital of the world, thank you) has been hard hit by news that two of its stars have recently tested positive for HIV. Some companies have shut down production entirely, others are continuing business as usual, some are shifting to a “safer-sex” format.
Some folks might respond to this story with schadenfreude, or at the least, with a certain lack of compassion for the people involved. “What else should they have expected?”, a reasonable person might ask of those who perform in porn; “they are reaping the consequences of their actions”,others might — with some justification — say.
The one woman known to be infected with HIV is an 18 year-old porn actress (who has only worked in the business three months) named Lara Roxx. She contracted HIV through unprotected anal sex with two men during the shooting of one particular film in March. What she was doing was perfectly legal, as it was in the workplace and she was over 18. No one — least of all the producers of the film — showed the slightest regard for this young woman who is still, for all psychological and spiritual purposes, very much in adolescence. (For obvious reasons, I’m not going to link to any porn sites — all my information about her has been gleaned from mainstream, non-x-rated media.) Brian Flemming, who apparently works close to the industry, put it best in his blog:
Lara Roxx had zero protection by government agencies. There was no cop on that set. No fire marshal. No doctor. Nobody had a license. And nobody broke the law by paying a teenager to accept the uncovered penises of two men into her anus.
Roxx showed poor judgment, yes. She isn’t blameless. But there are plenty of neophyte stunt performers in L.A. who would also be delighted to show some poor judgment and get themselves hurt or killed on a Hollywood movie set–but the government regulates those sets. I’ve auditioned plenty of eager young actors who would no doubt be willing to do their own dangerous stunts if it meant getting a good role and getting paid–but the LAPD, the LAFD and the Screen Actors Guild would all have something to say about that.
The 18-year-olds flooding into the porn industry have just about nobody. The porn companies label them “independent contractors,” so the performers don’t even have the workplace safety protections that fry cooks at Burger King do.
Lara Roxx, who is too young to legally drink in a bar, has HIV not just because she participated in a dangerous sex act. She also has HIV because there was nobody to stop the producers from dangling money and other inducements in front of this young woman to get her to take that risk.
It’s important for porn to be legal. The government has no business outlawing sex or sexual fantasy. But this principle is not so sacred that we need to allow an industry to exploit and endanger its workers. There’s no fundamental right to express HIV. There’s no right to pay someone to play Russian roulette for your entertainment.
But we Californians have decided that the sex industry is the one industry that is allowed to lure young women and men and use them as it pleases. No politician speaks for these workers. No union imposes conditions on their employers.
The mainstream film industry, while making billions from distributing porn on the QT, doesn’t have any use for the dirty people who actually make it.
The porn industry has become increasingly mainstream, so much so that on the same day that the HIV story broke in LA, the New York Times did an “at home” feature in its House and Garden section on porn star Jenna Jameson’s 6700 square foot palace in Arizona. But this increasingly accepting attitude towards pornography is still another example of how our society is abandoning its responsibility to care for and protect all of its citizens.
I know firsthand how destructive porn can be. I cannot say I have not enjoyed looking at it; I can also say with confidence that exposure to it has invariably left me feeling ashamed, alienated, and sad. That may not be a universal experience, but it is certainly a very common response! Like in so many other areas (abortion, plastic surgery) we frame the debate about pornography in terms of choices. Women should have the choice to work in porn. Men should have the choice to work in porn. Women and men should have the choice to consume porn as well. As long as everyone (performer, producer, marketer, consumer) is over 18, where is the harm?
The harm is in my soul when I view it. The harm is in Lara Roxx’s body right now. Lara Roxx no doubt has another name, which we in the public don’t know. Porn stars, almost without exception, change their names when they work in the industry. “Lara Roxx” is not a person in the male porn consumer’s mind, she’s an object for fantasy and objectification. But beneath Lara’s violated and brutalized flesh is a young girl who has what I imagine is a far humbler name (a Nicole, a Jennifer, a Maria, an Elizabeth perhaps). I don’t know her, but I’m pretty damned confident that in 1996, when she was TEN, the little girl who would become Lara Roxx (HIV-infected porn actress) did not dream of becoming famous and wealthy for having anal sex with two men on camera. Her hopes for herself were, I suspect, simpler, warmer, and filled with infinitely more longing and promise.
The fact that Lara is 18 and consented to the making of this film means no crime was committed under California law. I’m not interested in ranting about the law. I’m grieving because Lara’s story reminds me of how much damage porn does to so very many lives. Lara’s very life is now in jeopardy. You can say she has some culpability, and I agree, she does. But the only reason the money is so good for young women in porn is because men are willing to pay quite a bit to see girls like Lara naked and exposed and penetrated. I confess that in the past I have been guilty of that very sin. My dollars have fed an industry of death, and I grieve that. And I know that I too — and countless other men — have been damaged. When men like me lust after girls like she who is called Lara Roxx (she’s 18, I’ll be damned if I’ll call her a grown woman), we scar our spirits and tarnish our relationships with all the other women in our lives as a consequence. I have worked hard to make certain that when I see teenage girls and young women (and I work with them daily), I see them as people worthy of my respect, friendship, and — yes — my protection.
I know there are women who work in the porn industry (the aforementioned Jameson chief among them) who are proud of what they do, who refuse to see themselves as exploited, who have reaped large financial rewards. While I accept their experience as valid, I am convinced that they are rare and over-hyped exceptions. I am convinced that the reality of the porn industry — for performers of both genders — is pyschically, physically, emotionally and morally far bleaker than its few superstars will ever admit.
As a man, I am called to do the hard but essential work of looking beneath the hyper-sexualized surface image that young women so often adopt in our society today. I owe it to myself, to the woman with whom I share my bed and my life, and to these young women themselves. The fact that many young girls and women choose to make themselves objects of desire does not lessen for one second my obligation to look past that veneer and see them as my younger sisters whom I need to honor, love, and care for. The girl who is called Lara is sick today. I imagine that tonight she’s scared beyond words, filled with regret and fear. I’m praying for her, and I ask God for forgiveness because I know that in some small way, my money has in the past helped to fuel the industry that has done this to her.
Porn kills many things: innocence, hope, trust, health, bodies, spirits. I know it is hip today to proclaim it harmless, but the unfashionable fact is that this is an industry built on distorted fantasy, loneliness, and despair. And we on the left need to stop hiding behind the First Amendment issues and articulate this untrendy but vital truth.
Bold, frank, and embracing the issues without the kit-gloves I expect from Christian men.
I appreciate your approach to this, Hugo. I apprciate your candor in discussing meaningfully an issue that is taboo and difficult to touch. I would like to write as effectively on the issue of pornography.
Thanks, Bill!
Two thoughts, offered humbly because this is a fine piece of thinking and writing.
I think this really goes beyond left and right. When First Amendment rights fail to shield the industry from workplace protection, etc, the “freedom to profit” argument comes into play. It is an industry, and the left has been most active, traditionally, in pushing for regulation and limitation of profitable industries when those profits come at the expense of workers, consumers, innocent bystanders. Maybe it’s pushing a metaphor, but the regulation of industrial waste is a fine example of putting limits on legal activities for the protection of society because the true cost of those profits is much greater than the expenditures made by the company.
And I think this goes beyond our male obligations to women or to ourselves as individuals. Though we must certainly start with ourselves, there are generations of boys and men around us whom we can influence with our teaching, our examples, and that influence will do more to help women, help all of us, than simply beating ourselves up over past sins.
Very good post, Hugo. The best I’ve ever read on this topic. Thanks.
Hugo, I posted about your article. I find your words compelling and compassionate. Thank you.
Hugo - GREAT POST!
It says something strong about where we are as a culture that this sort of stuff is so prominent in pop-culture. It bothers me that that sort of apathy towards something so obviously corrosive to our culture bleeds into so many other parts of life. I wonder if this trend (not just porn itself, but the mindset behind its near-glorification) also has its fingers in 13-year olds going to school wearing half-a-shirt, half-a-pair-of-shorts, etc.
You’re the social scientist, not I, but when girls start thinking they must engage in the sort of dress and behavior that is glorified by this stuff, just to meet a guy, we as society are in some serious trouble. When the idea that I might want to meet a girl, and actually judge her based on personality, morals, and things of that nature – instead of soley based on her attractiveness, is mocked and teased – it scares me.
I’m not a big fan of slippery slope arguments, as they’re usually more off base than they are insightful. But you have to wonder where this is heading…??? Ten years from now? Twenty? Does this continue down the same path, or do we make a U-Turn at some point, and head for safe ground? What will it take to bring that around? Is it going to take parents to collectively say, “I’m mad as hell, and not going to take it anymore!†or what???
I’m just rambling, but your post brought together months of abstract thoughts I’d been having…anyway, Happy Sunday – too bad school starts tomorrow…and thanks for the thought provocation.
Hugo, I respect the second half of your post in which you articulate the many ways in which porn is destructive. Yet I have to wonder how you would reconcile this fact with the advocacy of government-sponsored protections of porn stars. Though I agree that those who have been abused by the industry deserve some degree of protection, doesn’t regulation from the government confer on the porn industry a certain level of legitimacy? A Hollywood film production is a legitimate endeavor which in certain instances can become abusive. The regulations serve to demarcate what is good from what is abusive. The porn industry, on the other hand, is inherently abusive. For a government agency to regulate it by saying that certain aspects of it are illegal but other aspects are acceptable is to legitimize those aspects which are retained. By saying that it is wrong “to allow an industry to exploit and endanger its workers”, one is saying that the other aspects of the industry are ok. But porn is inherently exploitative. To regulate it would be to say that it is ok to exploit as long as you don’t exploit. How would you reconcile this?
Thanks for the great comments, folks.
Timbo — the question of regulation is a troublesome one. I think we have to approach porn on a variety of levels: one is spiritual and psychological, where we offer support and care to those who work in or consume porn. Here we seek to convince those who are as of yet unconvinced of the deadening consequences of the porn business for both performer and consumer. This is cultural and spiritual work.
Legally, we must be realists. Prohibition did not work to stop alcohol; Alcoholics Anonymous proved to be infinitely more successful! To ban porn would be virtually impossible, and what few regulations and positive elements that do exist (like the various Adult Industry Health Projects) would be lost in the attempt. We can work towards a porn-free world while simultaneously insuring that those who do — despite our hopes and pleas — work in porn can do so with a maximum amount of safety. I really don’t think it’s an either/or, I think it’s a both/and.
Thanks Hugo, for the candor, passion, and thoughtfulness. I confess that between my religion, my early exposure to Catharine MacKinnon, and my three daughters–all of whom I fear for when I think at how thoroughly and unreflectively the “ethos” of pornography has been adopted by purveyors of fashion, media, etc., in America today–I’m a bit of an anti-porn absolutist. Or at least enough of one that Timbo’s question strikes home for me. I confess I haven’t tried to work out a real policy here; I recognize that squelching the market for pornography will be next to impossible, and that many innocents like Lara are being wounded along the way. But the idea of involving the state in a formal way with porn strikes me as crossing a Rubicon we don’t want to get near. I don’t know.
Hugo-
I’ve been following this story a little more closely, mostly because I am one of those people who does rubberneck, and this has all the hallmarks of a great, tawdry scandal- sex, sleaze, heartbreak, death, everything. I’m not necessarily proud of it, but there it is.
It’s easy to see Lara Roxx as a victim of the soulless machine of the porno industry, as that is what she appears to be from most reporting done by the Associated Press.
However, I noticed something on one of the local television news channels that made look a little deeper into it, mostly to see what the trade press was saying on the matter (yes, it does exist, and was what Matt Drudge was linking to before the more mainstream media picked it up- that’s how I found out about it).
Apparently, Lara had been doing her adult modeling in Canada, and had, against the advice of the people she was doing so with up there, had come to Los Angeles, and was living in a very seedy motel, with little in the way of money or whatnot.
Decisions like that alone, divorced from the career she had become involved in, indiciate serious problems. I believe that I read somewhere that a gargantuan proportion of these women were abused in some way earlier in life. I’m guessing that it’s quite likely that Lara was in that boat.
Where this is all going to, much as I hate this same argument when it happens in other places, is that the sympathy focused on Lara’s infection makes it easy for onlookers to simply say “that poor girl! What with the porno and the HIV!” and not realize that something like a third of women and a seventh of men have suffered sexual abuse as children.
Essentially, her situation, which more than likely had its roots in such abuse, has degenerated to the point that it’s become too easy for we, the rubberneckers, to watch dispassionately- after all, how many people do we know that are, if not exactly, than nearly so, prostitutes? Not many, I’d wager. However, I can guarantee you that all of us know more than one person who’s had sexual abuse as a child.
And that is the real sorrow lurking behind this lurid story.
First off, Clam, you are very much missed in the blogosphere. Please come back when your workload allows.
The link between porn and sexual abuse, while controversial, is difficult to deny. In some ways, it seems circular to me. There is at least some evidence that those who molest kids are heavy consumers of porn, and may even be inspired by porn. And their victims may indeed grow up to become sex workers in the porn field, thus pushing the cycle further.
Russell, the state regulates alcohol and gambling (two notoriously destructive vices). Though I am opposed to state lotteries, I know from history that prohibition was a disaster. We have to work on hearts and minds on the one hand, and at the same time, protect the vulnerable. Because the state regulates porn in California to some small degree, porn producers are forced to very carefully check ID to make sure that their performers are 18. 18 is still very, very young — but if porn is driven underground, the producers of the now-illicit erotic material will have fewer reasons to observe the law on that issue.
I think the “both/and” approach is likely to be the most successful.
I notice only men are commenting on this post so far. That might mean something!
Maybe because men are the biggest consumers of porn. I have very little sympathy with the “free speech” and “choice” arguments on this one. Some things are just wrong. Some things are just indecent. That’s one of them.
Wonderful post, Mr. Schwyzer. (Yes, I am a gal, and I’ve frequented your blog for awhile now even though I don’t always agree with the opinions you’ve posted. However, there’s this thing about echo chambers that I despise…)
I don’t think I can add anything more beyond the fact that you’ve covered all ground and answered my questions before I could even type ‘em out. In the words of our Governator, “Ah’ll be bach.”
I agree with so much of what you write, and applaud your willingness to tackle a difficult issue with sensitivity. Yet ultimately I conclude that you speak from a limited awareness and balance of the potentially beneficial ends for erotica. Statements like “Porn kills” sadly are more of the black-and-white thinking that clouds clear perceptions on this issue.
Joe, I do acknowledge that there may be beneficial aspects to erotica. When I say “porn kills”, I mean the pornography industry, which is a deeply and profoundly UNEROTIC place. Where the erotic involves suggestiveness, mystery, and reciprocity, porn does not. Erotica is best consumed with another; porn is designed (primarily) to be consumed alone. Erotica leads to a desire to connect with another as equal; porn leads to isolation and the desire to dominate and objectify. Yes, I’m being rhetorical and sweeping. But there’s a truth or two hiding in there as well.
Thanks for the visit!
I enjoyed your article very much despite the nature of this difficult topic. It’s a sad turn of events in Lara Roxx’s young life, regardless of our own judgements about her lifestyle. She may have been some man’s fantasy girl, but ultimately, she is someone’s daughter, sister & friend.
Hi Hugo,
I am not a believer myself but I had to reply to the eloquence and candour of your post regarding Lara Roxx and other men and women like her who are exploited by the Adult Film (Porn) Industry.
Yay for you!
Hugo,
Thanks for putting into words my feelings since reading of the young woman who contracted HIV.
My husband and I are raising three boys, I hope to read your post to them (edited of course)as an example of looking at this issue with honesty, dignity,and compassion. Indeed,
the harm is in my soul too.
Hugo, you are obviously a sick imdividual with a world view distorted by Christian propaganda.
Of the many erroneous claims inside your blog entry, Brian Flemming being close to the porn business is the worst of all. He is nothing more than a deplorable opportunist, just as you are, using the tragedy of one woman to further thier own motivations, agendas, and egos.
By the way, in all of your arm chair philosophizing, did it ever strike you that perhaps blogs were not the best place to go looking for truly accurate information?
New evidence suggests that Lara might actually be a 30 year old prostitute instead of the naive 18 year old she has been portraying herself to be.
But that doesn’t serve your ultimate purposes to villify and demonize pornography, mostly because your parents instilled a value structure in you growing up that views a human beings natural sexuality as a shameful act, especially for women, who are supposed to be meek and pure, a tabula rasa for your sexual desires and fantasies unsoiled by other men.
I say to you, as I said to this con artist Brian, who has never been within a hundred feet of a porn set, to do your homework before you set sail on a journey of ignorance and drag your readers along with you.
Then again, what does what I say matter? I am just another hard working pornographer.
Oh my goodness, I was waiting for one of y’all to show up here! Welcome.
I don’t care if Lara Roxx is 50. Her age is not the critical issue here; the issue is her exploitation to feed the insatiable desire of a largely male consumer public to have women’s bodies exposed for their delight.
I am not anti-sex, my friend; far from it. But sex in the absence of caring and commitment is, I think a sad distortion of its original intent. I don’t need the women in my life to be meek and pure; I also don’t want them to submit to double anal penetration for my enjoyment.
To be called “sick” by you, sir, is a pleasure and an honor; I return the compliment and wish you well.
Hugo, what I think he’s referring to is that, at 30, she was much more aware of what’s going on.
One of those “you can’t rent this car until you’re at least 25″ things, I suspect.
It’s easy to say “poor girl, victimized and abused by the porn industry.” But that’s not exactly accurate. We must remember that nobody forced the girl to join the porn industry. She could have chosen not to join the porn industry. Nobody forced her to go to L.A. to be a porn star. She could have chosen not to go to L.A. Nobody forced her to do a double anal penetration. The director just said it’s double anal or nothing. She could have disagreed and left. But choices were made by her without force nor intimidation. She willingly subject herself to the risk. Of course, she couldn’t be dumb enough or naive enough not to know that there are risks whenever you fuck someone unprotected with or without a camera. It was her choice to take that risk. That’s precisely why there’s an age restriction in that industry. Because it is assumed, that at age 18, you already know what you are doing. Of course, you can already know what you are doing much earlier than that age, but 18 is a safe assumption.
It’s like a man, deciding to drink and drive, and when an accident happens, hugo will say “poor man, victimized and abused by the auto-industry.” It’s easy to put the blame on someone or something.
But it is about choice. You choose to take the risk, be prepared to face the consequence. This girl is not that dumb and not that naive to be controlled like a robot. Choices were made. And now she has to face the music. She isn’t a “victim.”
What folks are ignoring here is the essential sinfulness (yes, I am making a JUDGMENT here) of watching a woman accept a “double anal penetration” for money. You can’t tell me that that isn’t painful and degrading… and though she made a choice, it is male consumers and their tastes that make such choices possible for her.
Lara Roxx, 18, 21, or 30 is MY SISTER. When I view porn, and especially when I pay for porn, I contribute to her exploitation. The idea that one ceases to be a victim when one hits a certain age strikes me as absurd.
If I may say so, Eric, your analogy is not a good one because you’ve left much out of your equation. There is: money, education, and discrimination, to name three. Well and good to say “choice” if choice is not hedged about with many other factors. If we are talking about a young woman with little education in a male dominated and compensated world, we’re not talking about a person who has many attractive alternatives. Sure, she can do McDonald’s and not subject herself to risk. Have you lived on McDonald’s wages? Take a look at Barbara Ehrenreich’s book, _Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America_.
Ralph,
What’s wrong with working in Mcdonalds? It’s a DECENT job. Of course those workers at Mcdonalds can also choose to do double anal penetration for money, but they CHOOSE not to. That’s their difference with this particular girl. Lack of education doesn’t make someone dumb. And it specially doesn’t make you a victim. And what discrimination? As far as I know, she was living in her own country, canada. And she came here for the purpose of doing porn. It’s not like she came L.A. wanting to have a decent job but couldn’t because of discrimination. No, that’s not case. She went to LA to do porn. So there’s no discrimination that I’m discounting.
The root cause here is that she wanted to live way beyond her means. And so she chose to take the risk, which ends up to the point that I was making right from the start, it was her choice and she wasn’t a victim.
Hugo,
If there are a thousand of us who will pay to see you jump off a building, would you?
If we will follow the logic of your last post, you would. Because we made that choice possible for you. It’s all about choice, brother. And by discounting choice, you are discounting the main factor.
By the way, I never said that you can’t be a victim when you reach a certain age. What I’m saying is that at a certain age when you already know what you are doing, you can’t be a victim by claiming you don’t know what you are doing. Because you do. Big difference. You’re putting words in my mouth.
Lastly, that’s the problem with society nowadays. Accountability to one’s action is almost always removed. You drink too much, people will say they have a “disease” called alcoholism. Making their vices a disease thereby removing the accountability to one’s action. You got an hiv by doing a double anal penetration for a porn production, people will say poor girl, a victim of lack of education. Where’s the accountability to one’s action? She could have chosen to go to school. I believe canada gives free education to its citizen who can’t afford one. Accountability to one’s action. A society with citizens that lack the sense of accountability to their own action will self-destruct in due time.
Eric, Have you lived on McDonald’s wages?
Ralph,
I haven’t. But I don’t need to. I understand your point. I know that their wages are low, that’s your point right? But I also know that there are a lot people who worked at mcdonalds but are now successful. Nobody said that you have to live with a mcdonalds’ wage for the rest of your life. You can CHOOSE to get a degree while working at mcdonalds. Of course you can make excuses and take the easy road instead by being a porn star where you just have to lie down and money will flow. Again it comes down down to choice and accountability to one’s action. You make the choices, face the consequences.
way to shake things up, hugo.
you deserve every hit you get and i hope your new readers are mad enough to read more.
:)
peace and many blessings,
jen
Awesome Post Hugo,
I thoroughly enjoyed reading and learning about what a respected and highly intellectual Californian deeply thinks of such controversial issues surounding his neighborhood.
I am writing this from Australia and I thought I may give you an insight into our pop culture during these times. I believe our country is slowly following into the footsteps of America and moreso California. I have a live in g/f who cannot pass on her weekly fix’s of reality T.V. shows such as Average Joe or The Bachelor. I must admit - even though I would love to deny it - it sometimes draws me in too. I do wonder if this reality T.V. is reality at all because it seems so structured. I was also wondering the other day if there are courses in America for reality T.V actors now. Anyway, sorry for getting off the subject. I guess I wanted to write in this post to share some of my thoughts about the spread and allurement of pop culture. I do believe there is a definite allure to your pop culture (if it be the porn industry, hollywood movies, McDonalds, etc etc.) in this country. I don’t think there are many cultures in this world that can totally resist this growing trend, especially with the internet bringing countries/cultures so much closer together. American Idol is a good example of something that has turned this country into a frenzy with our Australian Idol equivalent. This show would have to be the most talked about show in history. I think it’s good to import these shows, I mean at least it’s positive and it encourages and promotes happiness. I think it would be nice to look at America and especially California with more of a positive and moralistic approach than not. I mean it all comes down to ‘how much of’ and ‘of what quality’ the types of entertainment you export. To conclude - I guess it all comes down to freedoms and freedom of speach. We may import all sorts of shows from talk shows to reality shows, to some real crappy shows like ‘Jerry you know who’, however, at the end of the day, we only do so because that is what the majority of the public seems to want. It would be nice to see heaps more positive and moral forms of media from America and Hollywood because America is a beautiful country with good people. The world needs to see a constant stream of refreshing positive imagery for a change for the better.
Lara Roxx and many others didn’t have to get HIV…
Preventx (www.preventx.com) contains Benzalkonium Chloride which kills HIV (proven 99.9% effective) on contact. PreventX is a microbicide. Microbicides are a new class of CHEAP creams that can be used to kill sexual diseases. PreventX can be used like KY jelly.
Information about the clinically proven Prenventx/Benzalkonium Chloride and other microbicides that are EFFECTIVE against HIV is being surpressed to stop “another sexual revolution”. Large Drug companies want to block microbicides from getting FDA approval because it will cut into their HIV drug profits. Speaking of which a large percentage of the FDA work for large drug companies, which is like the Mafia making up a large percentage of the Police force.
Condoms… Do you like to eat PLASTIC food with NO TASTE? So who really likes condoms? The fact is many people, a very high percentage of people, hate condoms. It is time to stop the BS about condoms, there are OTHER effective methods such as microbicides to PROTECT the other 75% plus of humans that don’t like them.
A very effective and low cost solution to prevent HIV infection is HERE NOW, so why are more people not using it? a SOLUTION to prevent THOUSANDS of HIV infections can be stopped NOW.
Oooopsss… I meant a SOLUTION to prevent THOUSANDS of HIV infections is here NOW.
So who really likes condoms?
Me, for one. So do men I know who believe it makes them ‘last longer’–especially some of the newer ones.
If you really feel that sex with condoms is like plastic food, then I’d gently suggest you rethink your approach to sex.
My third post on your blog today, Hugo - the topics you cover are just so interesting!
Just wanted to comment on the effects of porn as inspiration for sex offenders; Americans, or even Canadians outside Toronto, might not be familiar with the Holly Jones case. Holly Jones was a ten-year-old girl who was snatched, raped and brutally murdered on her way home from a neighbour’s house on May 12, 2003. Her killer was convicted in June of this year. He pled guilty and will be spending the next 25 years in prison without possibility of parole. He told police that he was watching child porn right before he murdered Holly Jones and that this was the motive for his attack. Holly Jones’ family is now pushing for a tougher law to fight child pornography - Holly’s Law.
An article about the Holly Jones case, from Canada’s national public news network, is here:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/jones_holly/
I realize that child porn is illegal in a way that adult porn is not, because of the differences inherent between them. However, stories like this ought to make us take a very hard look at all forms of pornography and the kinds of behaviours they promote for men and women.
I, for one, believe the costs of pronography far outway the benefits, but this may be because I fail to see any benefits to pornography at all.
Anyone have any thoughts on the benefits of pornography? Redeeming features of the prorn industry? I would be genuinely interested to read them.
Well, I think that erotic material that depicts sex as fun and loving and mutual may be not only harmless but even healthy for some folks. On the other hand, it may also be destructively addictive; in general, I think any argument for the healthiness of porn have to be taken with a huge grain of salt.
But driving it underground is, in the age of the internet, surely impossible as well as unwise. Better to regulate and control as best we can.
I guess I’m just curious about how pornography is regarded in other places, especially in America (as opposed to here in Canada), and why. It’s one of those tricky issues that people seem reluctant to comment on.
Anyone have any thoughts on the benefits of pornography?
How about the benefits of car magazines? The benefits of magazines that teach you how to make desserts? The benefits of Reader’s Digest?
Which is to say, it’s a meaningless question. The real question is whether pornography is harmful, and first I’d like to hear a definition of pornography.
You concluded:
“Fantasy is not without its redemptive purposes, but when it is about sexual conquest or violent destruction, it is, I think, at odds with what it means to live an authentically Christian life.”
I’ve never agreed with you Hugo on pornography, so I’m not with you on fantasy either. Here are some rambling stream of consciousness thoughts about your post. I think what you say about fantasy is true on one level. Refusing to indulge in fantasies that are psychologically or spiritually harmful is probably a good thing for most people most of the time. Pedophile rapists, for example, should probably not be encouraged to cultivate an active fantasy life. But for most people, fantasy simply doesn’t have the harmful consequences you think it does. Only your philosophical and theological judgments make fantasy “wrong,” and therefore you want to cut it out, or repress the offensive fantasy. Your judgments, however, are only valid on one level of thinking about fantasy: the moralist’s. Moralizing about fantasy is one legitimate function, but it’s not a very complete picture of what constitutes human flourishing. Go deeper into “fantasy is not without its redemptive purposes” and there you will have a litany of reasons not to oppose or get overly moralistic about pornography or fantasy. The distinctions you make between pornography and erotica (one is good, the other is bad, guess which) strike me as strained … but then I don’t buy the whole “objectification” crapola argument either. If using pornography makes you feel guilty, don’t do it. But that doesn’t make porn bad, except in your mind. Porn is just another human cultural invention like any other, with a whole host of good and bad and in-between qualities. It can be used for a whole spectrum of purposes from those very low in developmental maturity to very highly mature purposes; and purposes from low to high can all be valid for persons at different times and places. Even saints can need to look at a hunky jock or a buxom lass to get off now and then, and no there’s nothing wrong with that, IMAJ. It may not be the highest or most noble or most selfless (what’s so damn wrong with selfishness anyways?) act imaginable. Serving soup to the homeless would probably be more dignified. But there are few things more human.
I know firsthand how destructive porn can be.
But why only male porn? Why not female oriented porn, such as romance novels? Romance novels are the number one type of book sold in the USA. How do they affect women? Do they cause women to believe what they have is so valuable that the perfect man will sweep them away–a common theme in romance novels? How many women have destroyed real relationships because romance novels caused them to believe they were princesses who must save themselves for some mythological Mr Right?
Romance novels often have sex scenes which can get pretty heavy duty. For ex: one recent romance novel I read has the hero performing oral sex on the heroine, then getting into a heavy duty lip lock, and then having her describe how her own vaginal fluids tasted via his mouth.
Heavy duty!
Christ, because oral sex performmed on one as an act to further one’s arousal is SO much like a double-penetration act of anal sex.
I am a young woman who has been involved in the sex industry, but there was no way I would have been irresponsible enough to let it take me down. I learned a lot about men and their secret lives and about men as a gender. And I regret the secret life that I had at that point in time, but I was disrespected so much that I learned how to spot it a mile away. I now respect myself as much as anyone could, and maybe I would have gone in that direction anyway, but I think it helps to have a person in mind when you look at yourself in the future.
well, female porn, for one, is in romance novels and is especially about, you guessed it romance. There is not one thing about love and/or romance that is demeaning to anyone. It may be sprinkled with lust sometimes, but that is a far cry from some young goodlooking girl pretending she likes to get double dicked hard by two guys that are taking out their agrression for all the women that have broken their hearts or denied them. This woman looks like she is getting punished, or gang raped, not romanced. However, I do think that romance novels promote adultery and fantasies about adultery that are unhealthy, but i dont think there is anything wrong with a women who gets woken up by a romance novel and decides she is not going to settle for this shlup she spends her time with.