Comments on: Retreat report

By: brett

brett — Sun, 05 Jun 2005 00:20:05 +0000

I’ve stumbled across this site after googling “teen creeds” and have read with interest some of what’s here. I feel compelled to ask a question. Being ordained in an evangelical denomination, the mere asking of this question may play into some of the negative stereotypes surrounding evangelicals, homosexuality, and same-sex unions. However, after reading this quote found above (”If folks with evangelical theology leave liberal churches, we leave the kids within those churches to grow up with a monolithic view of what it means to be a Christian. Our kids need to see that people can believe in Jesus and in justice, can support same-sex unions (the great All Saints issue) and still call Christ the unique Savior of all humankind.”), what do you do with a passage like I Corinthians 6:9-11? How does that mesh with a “liberal” view on homosexuality? I realize that there are many disciplines we hold within our denomination as necessary for membership - non-smoker, non-drinker, etc. - that are “gray areas” scripturally. I believe in my heart that you can smoke and have a share in the Kingdom of God. But these I Corinthians verses seem definitive concerning a lifestyle of active homosexuality, among other things, which is sinful in the eyes of God. Help me out.

By: Lisa

Lisa — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 02:51:59 +0000

Hugo, Your last paragraph sounds a lot like how I feel about being a liberal feminist Mormon, only the vise versa side of things. In my world, there’s way too much emphasis on what we do with our bodies, and not nearly enough on exploitive social systems. I hope in some small way to bring balance where I can. If I left, if everyone who feels the way I do ran off to join All Saints, then where would the balance come, what good could I do there in a room full of people who totally agree with me?

By: Sarah Dylan Breuer

Sarah Dylan Breuer — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:16:34 +0000

Hugo,

I’m a licensed Eucharistic minister too, but in Maryland (unlike L.A.), the (not totally inflexible) position is that lay Eucharistic ministers should do their thing pretty much only when the people they’re sharing the Eucharist with are physically unable to get to a place where it’s being celebrated by a priest or bishop. I doubt that any Eucharistic police would arrest me or anything if I used pre-consecrated elements to do a Eucharist on a youth retreat, but I do try to follow my bishops’ preferences.

I think I’ve pretty much settled on bread and honey for the Sunday morning liturgy — I think at the end of and incorporated with breakfast, if I can arrange tables at the retreat center such that we’re all sitting around one table. But I’m *really* looking forward to being able to celebrate the Eucharist.

By: the_methotaku

the_methotaku — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 16:32:41 +0000

“Our kids need to see that people can believe in Jesus and in justice, can support same-sex unions (the great All Saints issue) and still call Christ the unique Savior of all humankind. They need to know that liberal politics can mesh well with evangelical faith — even if in that meshing, one’s own contradictions become exposed.” I comepletely aggree with you here, though in my case I’m a politcal progressive in a somewhat evangelical Methodist church.

By: Hugo

Hugo — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:08:45 +0000

Yes, we always use pre-consecrated elements. One of our youth directors is an official eucharistic minister, and helps arrange everything for us. (Pre-consecrated means that the host — the bread — has already been consecrated — blessed — by a priest.)

By: John

John — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 06:39:55 +0000

Not if you’re an Anglican or a Catholic. This is interesting, Hugo. I’m going to be teaching a Baptism class in a month or so, and although we shall emphatically not be writing our own creed (We prefer to let the Apostles do that), I shall read with interest, and I hope, not with pain.

By: Swan

Swan — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 01:46:20 +0000

The writing of the creed sounds like a great idea. Makes the students about their faith.

What is a celebrant? What are pre-consecrated elements? Isn’t all you need (yeast-free) bread, grape juice and some Christians to have a Lord’s supper?

By: Sarah Dylan Breuer

Sarah Dylan Breuer — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 00:31:18 +0000

How did you have a Eucharist without a celebrant? Did you use pre-consecrated elements?

I’m going back and forth on what to do for our high school spring retreat. Our co-rectors will have left the parish, but we’ll still be using supply clergy on Sunday mornings only, as the interim won’t have arrived yet. In other words, there’s pretty much no chance of having a priest there. My understanding is that our bishops don’t really like layfolk, or even deacons, using preconsecrated elements under circumstances like this (I suppose I could ask them).

I’m leaning toward doing an agape instead — maybe see whether we can do it in the context of breakfast on Sunday morning, with the gospel reading being the resurrection appearance in John in which Jesus cooks breakfast for his followers. Too bad there isn’t any kind of fish we could have that the group members wouldn’t find repulsive! Maybe bread and honey would work …

By: Stentor

Stentor — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 20:47:01 +0000

The fact that your kids can come up with their own creed speaks well of the quality of your confirmation class (in terms of the teaching and in terms of the pupils). Thinking back to my own confirmation experience, I remember us as bored and uncomfortable with speaking to each other in religious terms. It wasn’t so much a learning and growing experience as something we had to get through to gain the social standing of adults in the church. Had we been asked to write a creed, we would have focused all too much on figuring out what the pastor wanted us to say so that we could get on with our lives.

By: Hugo

Hugo — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:57:59 +0000

I’ll look for some old creeds; we did do a Compline service on Friday and Saturday nights and a Sunday morning Eucharist (but no celebrant.)