Comments on: Family bragging, male body anxiety, and the questioning of masculine credentials http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/ Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:15:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Candy Cane http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12890 Candy Cane Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:29:55 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12890 Girls wear pants, why can't men wear dresses? We shouldn't be bias in letting women do one thing and then not let males have the same freedom. Girls wear pants, why can’t men wear dresses? We shouldn’t be bias in letting women do one thing and then not let males have the same freedom.

]]> By: mythago http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12889 mythago Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:24:37 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12889 "Normal" is not a neutral term. “Normal” is not a neutral term.

]]> By: Caitriona http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12888 Caitriona Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:25:16 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12888 But how do *you* define "healthy, normal masculinity?" The problem is, your definition of "healthy, normal masculinity" is probably at least slightly different than every other persons' definition. That's why I posted that about normal being the average of all the abnormals. *Noone* is completely normal. But how do *you* define “healthy, normal masculinity?”

The problem is, your definition of “healthy, normal masculinity” is probably at least slightly different than every other persons’ definition. That’s why I posted that about normal being the average of all the abnormals. *Noone* is completely normal.

]]> By: Mr. Bad http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12887 Mr. Bad Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:21:16 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12887 Caitriona asked: <i>"I was always told that normal is the average of all the abnormals in the world. How do *you* define 'normal?'"</i> I define "normal" as whatever the vast majority (e.g., +/- 1 standard deviation) of a given sector of society looks like, in this case, how masculinity is expressed by men. As for average, you're correct, it is the arithmetic mean of the sample population, but I don't consider folks out in the tails of the (usually normal) distribution to be "normal" or "average" - they are by definition "outliers." So, as I said before, while I accept Hugo as a genuine male, IMO he's an outlier vis-a-vis healthy, normal masculinity. Caitriona asked: “I was always told that normal is the average of all the abnormals in the world. How do *you* define ‘normal?’”

I define “normal” as whatever the vast majority (e.g., +/- 1 standard deviation) of a given sector of society looks like, in this case, how masculinity is expressed by men. As for average, you’re correct, it is the arithmetic mean of the sample population, but I don’t consider folks out in the tails of the (usually normal) distribution to be “normal” or “average” - they are by definition “outliers.” So, as I said before, while I accept Hugo as a genuine male, IMO he’s an outlier vis-a-vis healthy, normal masculinity.

]]> By: mercedes http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12886 mercedes Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:48:22 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12886 I'm off to to work on my 'female body anxiety.'__I'm back to running, it wasn't easy after such a long hiatus....today I'm climbing up the mountain. I’m off to to work on my ‘female body anxiety.’__I’m back to running, it wasn’t easy after such a long hiatus….today I’m climbing up the mountain.

]]> By: mercedes http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12885 mercedes Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:38:03 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12885 Caitriona, I'm not sure if I understand your last comment.....I've been a student in Hugo's classes and the reason it's difficult to challenge him is because he's a really bright guy and very quick to find flaws with your argument. I think that the problem lies with the students, not with Hugo. As a student we need to find the fortitude to stand up to our convictions and challenge our professors.__I wouldn't say Hugo's arrogant or difficult to approach. Actually, it's the opposite, he asks the students for questions and he wants to include them in the lecture. Caitriona,
I’m not sure if I understand your last comment…..I’ve been a student in Hugo’s classes and the reason it’s difficult to challenge him is because he’s a really bright guy and very quick to find flaws with your argument. I think that the problem lies with the students, not with Hugo. As a student we need to find the fortitude to stand up to our convictions and challenge our professors.__I wouldn’t say Hugo’s arrogant or difficult to approach. Actually, it’s the opposite, he asks the students for questions and he wants to include them in the lecture.

]]> By: mercedes http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12884 mercedes Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:24:56 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12884 Caitriona, I define normal as what is 'normal' for the particular individual. For instance, I'm certainly not normal as far as normal goes about nutrition, or the body. When I was in my twenties I would do a cleansing fast once a month!.... I sometimes bathe three times a day. This is certainly not normal! You know, I was really hard on Hugo about body obcession, but I realize that I'm probably more obcessive about the body than most people. I think I was just really jealous that some people were doing all this exercise and cleansing and I was turning into the Pillsbury dough boy. I wasn't able to exercise for almost two months due to school and other commitments. Caitriona,
I define normal as what is ‘normal’ for the particular individual. For instance, I’m certainly not normal as far as normal goes about nutrition, or the body. When I was in my twenties I would do a cleansing fast once a month!…. I sometimes bathe three times a day. This is certainly not normal!

You know, I was really hard on Hugo about body obcession, but I realize that I’m probably more obcessive about the body than most people. I think I was just really jealous that some people were doing all this exercise and cleansing and I was turning into the Pillsbury dough boy. I wasn’t able to exercise for almost two months due to school and other commitments.

]]> By: Caitriona http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12883 Caitriona Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:13:06 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12883 <i>Also, BTW, a few of the raters at rateyourprofessors.com have commented on Hugo's "arrogance" and the risks one takes when/if challenging him in the classroom re. the opinions he presents during his lectures. Therefore, I'm not the only one to notice the above-cited phenomenon.</i> He's far from the only poster here to have a bit of arrogance. Also, BTW, a few of the raters at rateyourprofessors.com have commented on Hugo’s “arrogance” and the risks one takes when/if challenging him in the classroom re. the opinions he presents during his lectures. Therefore, I’m not the only one to notice the above-cited phenomenon.

He’s far from the only poster here to have a bit of arrogance.

]]> By: Caitriona http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12882 Caitriona Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:02:45 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12882 <i>average, normal, healthy masculinity</i> I was always told that normal is the average of all the abnormals in the world. How do *you* define 'normal?' average, normal, healthy masculinity

I was always told that normal is the average of all the abnormals in the world. How do *you* define ‘normal?’

]]> By: Mr. Bad http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12881 Mr. Bad Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:37:22 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/20/family-bragging-male-body-anxiety-and-the-questioning-of-masculine-credentials/#comment-12881 Ok Hugo, let’s analyze this. You wrote: <i>”According to ASAPS, 1.1 million American men underwent cosmetic surgery procedures during 2003.”</i> According to <a href="http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf" rel="nofollow"> the U.S. Census Bureau </a>, as of 2003 the population of the U.S. was 291,049,000. If men represent 49% of the population, then that gives a figure of 142,614,010 men. That means that according to your data, 0.08% of men in the U.S. underwent cosmetic surgery. Hugo, dude, that’s a pretty small number, and I would argue is hardly representative of average, normal, healthy men, at least in the U.S. Add to that the fact that your number doesn’t tell us how many of those men had cosmetic surgery for purposes other than vanity (e.g., reconstruction after injury, cancer, etc.) and the number you give is even less impressive. Your quote continues: <i>”By contrast, ASAPS reports that in 1997, only 287,000 American men were cosmetic patients. That's a six year growth of 269 percent, or an average increase of about 45 percent per year. That same study showed that 74 percent of the men interviewed said they wouldn't be embarrassed if others knew they'd had cosmetic surgery.”</i> Ok, so there was big growth in a <b>phenomenally small, miniscule societal sub-group</b>. So what? Like I said, guys getting cosmetic surgery are not representative of average, normal, healthy masculinity. Gong – try again. Ok Hugo, let’s analyze this.

You wrote: ”According to ASAPS, 1.1 million American men underwent cosmetic surgery procedures during 2003.”

According to the U.S. Census Bureau , as of 2003 the population of the U.S. was 291,049,000. If men represent 49% of the population, then that gives a figure of 142,614,010 men. That means that according to your data, 0.08% of men in the U.S. underwent cosmetic surgery. Hugo, dude, that’s a pretty small number, and I would argue is hardly representative of average, normal, healthy men, at least in the U.S. Add to that the fact that your number doesn’t tell us how many of those men had cosmetic surgery for purposes other than vanity (e.g., reconstruction after injury, cancer, etc.) and the number you give is even less impressive.

Your quote continues: ”By contrast, ASAPS reports that in 1997, only 287,000 American men were cosmetic patients. That’s a six year growth of 269 percent, or an average increase of about 45 percent per year. That same study showed that 74 percent of the men interviewed said they wouldn’t be embarrassed if others knew they’d had cosmetic surgery.”

Ok, so there was big growth in a phenomenally small, miniscule societal sub-group. So what?

Like I said, guys getting cosmetic surgery are not representative of average, normal, healthy masculinity.

Gong – try again.

]]>