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	<title>Comments on: Mea culpas and clarifications</title>
	<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Catharyne</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13125</link>
		<dc:creator>Catharyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13125</guid>
		<description>You write: "But I also believe that interracial dating, particularly when it leads to marriage and children, has a salutatory effect upon the broader culture that marrying within one's own race does not.  The effect, of course, is of increased tolerance and understanding, as well as a blending of cultures."

You're welcome to believe that, of course.  But it strikes me as naive.  There are few if any "pure breds" in Brazil, but race remains a serious issue.  This is also true in many African nations (e.g., Nigeria, Rwanda, et al.), where ethnicity/tribal affiliation becomes a dividing factor in the absence of significant racial distinctions.  Homogeneity of skin color does not bring a community or nation together.  

And why are racial homogeneity and "a blending of cultures" to be desired?  I thought progressives favored diversity.  Here you seem to be pushing for eradication of difference, domestication of the Other, total assimilation.   That seems like a profoundly illiberal project.

Good luck with your coming marriage.

C. 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write: &#8220;But I also believe that interracial dating, particularly when it leads to marriage and children, has a salutatory effect upon the broader culture that marrying within one&#8217;s own race does not.  The effect, of course, is of increased tolerance and understanding, as well as a blending of cultures.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re welcome to believe that, of course.  But it strikes me as naive.  There are few if any &#8220;pure breds&#8221; in Brazil, but race remains a serious issue.  This is also true in many African nations (e.g., Nigeria, Rwanda, et al.), where ethnicity/tribal affiliation becomes a dividing factor in the absence of significant racial distinctions.  Homogeneity of skin color does not bring a community or nation together.  </p>
<p>And why are racial homogeneity and &#8220;a blending of cultures&#8221; to be desired?  I thought progressives favored diversity.  Here you seem to be pushing for eradication of difference, domestication of the Other, total assimilation.   That seems like a profoundly illiberal project.</p>
<p>Good luck with your coming marriage.</p>
<p>C.</p>
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		<title>By: cmc</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13124</link>
		<dc:creator>cmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2005 13:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13124</guid>
		<description>Everyone in my inter-religious family seems to get along.  I think the varying religious  backgrounds and views in my family have indeed enriched the perspectives of everyone involved. Anecdotal I know but I thought I would include my family's history and current experience of inter-religious marriage:

-- My father is the product of a Jewish-Protestant marriage.  He was raised completely secularly with no religion at all (other than celebrating Christmas in a very non-religious way).

-- My mother comes from a devout Lutheran family.  A very large number of her relatives are ministers or married to ministers.  She is actually less respectful of religion than my secular father because she saw first hand what she viewed as "hypocrisy" among church leaders.

-- I was raised as a Unitarian and continue to identify as a Unitarian though I don't go to church. My father insisted that I study Jewish history when I was a child.  As a result, I have a very strong, perhaps irrational, sense of pride in and connection to my Jewish heritage, although I was not raised a Jew.
 
-- My husband is a non-church going Catholic.  He wants to join a Congregational church, although I have told him I would  be happy to attend a Catholic church with him.  He wants a church that is liberal enough for me without being "out there" like the Unitarians (as he put it). (He knows that I disapprove of the Catholic church's denial of the priesthood to women, so he has independently decided that we should not attend a Catholic church.) 

I find the Congregationalists very appealing, although I do not take communion as I do not consider myself Christian.  My husband does take communiion at the Congregationalist church.  We both are pretty comfortable with that.  If we had kids, we could live with them attending the Congregationalist church (even though I would prefer Unitarian and my husband would prefer Catholic.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone in my inter-religious family seems to get along.  I think the varying religious  backgrounds and views in my family have indeed enriched the perspectives of everyone involved. Anecdotal I know but I thought I would include my family&#8217;s history and current experience of inter-religious marriage:</p>
<p>&#8211; My father is the product of a Jewish-Protestant marriage.  He was raised completely secularly with no religion at all (other than celebrating Christmas in a very non-religious way).</p>
<p>&#8211; My mother comes from a devout Lutheran family.  A very large number of her relatives are ministers or married to ministers.  She is actually less respectful of religion than my secular father because she saw first hand what she viewed as &#8220;hypocrisy&#8221; among church leaders.</p>
<p>&#8211; I was raised as a Unitarian and continue to identify as a Unitarian though I don&#8217;t go to church. My father insisted that I study Jewish history when I was a child.  As a result, I have a very strong, perhaps irrational, sense of pride in and connection to my Jewish heritage, although I was not raised a Jew.</p>
<p>&#8211; My husband is a non-church going Catholic.  He wants to join a Congregational church, although I have told him I would  be happy to attend a Catholic church with him.  He wants a church that is liberal enough for me without being &#8220;out there&#8221; like the Unitarians (as he put it). (He knows that I disapprove of the Catholic church&#8217;s denial of the priesthood to women, so he has independently decided that we should not attend a Catholic church.) </p>
<p>I find the Congregationalists very appealing, although I do not take communion as I do not consider myself Christian.  My husband does take communiion at the Congregationalist church.  We both are pretty comfortable with that.  If we had kids, we could live with them attending the Congregationalist church (even though I would prefer Unitarian and my husband would prefer Catholic.)</p>
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		<title>By: Hugo</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13123</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13123</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Mythago.  I'll look for it.  I am sorry that I was so obtuse in my earlier comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Mythago.  I&#8217;ll look for it.  I am sorry that I was so obtuse in my earlier comments.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13122</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13122</guid>
		<description>Hugo, I highly recommend the book &lt;i&gt;Mixed Blessings&lt;/i&gt;. It's primarily aimed at Jewish-Christian couples, but it thoroughly discusses the whole issue of interfaith marriages, things that can make them work or not work, common problems, and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugo, I highly recommend the book <i>Mixed Blessings</i>. It&#8217;s primarily aimed at Jewish-Christian couples, but it thoroughly discusses the whole issue of interfaith marriages, things that can make them work or not work, common problems, and so on.</p>
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		<title>By: Camassia</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13121</link>
		<dc:creator>Camassia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13121</guid>
		<description>I should clarify, since I know some nice Unitarians also, that I called it "soup" not to imply watery meatlessness, but something made of other things chopped up and combined. My point was that when you make soup you make a new dish, not a coequal gathering of the things it's made of.

I don't know, I feel like we're talking past each other here. Seems like it's time to take the weekend off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should clarify, since I know some nice Unitarians also, that I called it &#8220;soup&#8221; not to imply watery meatlessness, but something made of other things chopped up and combined. My point was that when you make soup you make a new dish, not a coequal gathering of the things it&#8217;s made of.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know, I feel like we&#8217;re talking past each other here. Seems like it&#8217;s time to take the weekend off.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Bad</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13120</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2005/06/24/mea-culpas-and-clarifications/#comment-13120</guid>
		<description>Hugo wrote: &lt;i&gt;"But I also believe that interracial dating, particularly when it leads to marriage and children, has a salutatory effect upon the broader culture that marrying within one's own race does not.  The effect, of course, is of increased tolerance and understanding, as well as a blending of cultures."&lt;/i&gt;

Can you &lt;b&gt;prove&lt;/b&gt; that "interracial dating, particularly when it leads to marriage and children,... causes increased tolerance and understanding" or is that another one of your 'theories-presented-as-fact?'  If you can prove this, then please do so, otherwise correct your post to clearly state that this is your opinion and not indeed a proven, verifiable fact.

I'm not convinced that interracial dating and marriage in and of itself leads to more tolerance and understanding.  Rather, I believe that those who are amenable to interracial dating and marriage (like my parents) are &lt;b&gt;already&lt;/b&gt; predisposed to tolerance and understanding.  

Hugo, yours is a "chicken and egg" argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugo wrote: <i>&#8220;But I also believe that interracial dating, particularly when it leads to marriage and children, has a salutatory effect upon the broader culture that marrying within one&#8217;s own race does not.  The effect, of course, is of increased tolerance and understanding, as well as a blending of cultures.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Can you <b>prove</b> that &#8220;interracial dating, particularly when it leads to marriage and children,&#8230; causes increased tolerance and understanding&#8221; or is that another one of your &#8216;theories-presented-as-fact?&#8217;  If you can prove this, then please do so, otherwise correct your post to clearly state that this is your opinion and not indeed a proven, verifiable fact.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not convinced that interracial dating and marriage in and of itself leads to more tolerance and understanding.  Rather, I believe that those who are amenable to interracial dating and marriage (like my parents) are <b>already</b> predisposed to tolerance and understanding.  </p>
<p>Hugo, yours is a &#8220;chicken and egg&#8221; argument.</p>
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