Comments on: “Incredibly Hot” — the Michael Gee case

By: Hugo

Hugo — Sat, 23 Jul 2005 17:29:02 +0000

“Whenever you fire an asshole, no matter how justified the firing, they will probably sue you. Assholes do not gracefully accept that their actions were worthy of the boot. That doesn’t mean they’re likely to be successful.”

Nor does it mean the firing was undeserved.

By: mythago

mythago — Sat, 23 Jul 2005 17:14:26 +0000

Two words - paper trail. I think that the possibility for an unfair dismissal lawsuit here is huge.

Whenever you fire an asshole, no matter how justified the firing, they will probably sue you. Assholes do not gracefully accept that their actions were worthy of the boot. That doesn’t mean they’re likely to be successful.

By: BritGirlSF

BritGirlSF — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:00:07 +0000

Good point, Sally, but I also wonder how much of the “I’m too distracted to teach” was just hyperbole or boasting to his buddies.

By: Sally

Sally — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:23:19 +0000

I think the risk of a lawsuit would be just as high if they didn’t fire him. He admitted that he was so distracted by his attraction to a student that he was having trouble teaching his students fairly. Any student who disliked his or her grade could argue that his bias came into play.

By: BritGirlSF

BritGirlSF — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:16:31 +0000

Two words - paper trail. I think that the possibility for an unfair dismissal lawsuit here is huge. I’m coming from the point of view of having had to fire people and go through the proper steps to cover one’s ass legally.

By: mythago

mythago — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:58:15 +0000

I just think that there are other disciplinary steps which should be taken first rather than firing someone.

Racism, sexism and bag-of-hammers stupidity? I think that’s enough for the disciplinary step to be “seeya, pal.” He didn’t have tenure or an employment contract.

By: BritGirlSF

BritGirlSF — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:46:52 +0000

The fact that he should have been aware that this comment might get back to the students puts this in a very different light. Why not just use a pseudonym? After all, that’s what a lot of academics do, and for very good reason.
Question - did the department try talking to him and getting him to modify the offending behavior first? Because that would have been my first step (speaking as someone who is accustomed to managing staff). especially given that this is first teaching post.
Don’t get me wrong - I absolutely understand why this is a very bad thing for a teacher to do, especially in a small class where favouritism is especially obvious. I just think that there are other disciplinary steps which should be taken first rather than firing someone. I would think that the way this was handled may leave the university open to an unfair dismissal lawsuit.
Wow, that HR/legal training I had to sit through seems to have made more of an impact than I initially realised.

By: Hugo

Hugo — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:20:54 +0000

So be it, NYMOM. I’m sure he’s a lovely man; that doesn’t mean his comments didn’t make his teaching position untenable.

By: NYMOM

NYMOM — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:01:57 +0000

“It was his first teaching job ever, and clearly, he belongs in a different line of work. If you can’t see your students as people rather than objects, you don’t belong in the classroom.”

NYMOM said: Well you’re a teacher, I’m not. Thus I’ll accept your judgement on him although frankly, it seems a bit harsh, somewhat unlike the Hugo I’ve come to know on this blog.

By: Hugo

Hugo — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:30:31 +0000

Well, NYMOM, in a class with six people in it, it must have been blatantly obvious who he was talking about — especially with the unfortunate ethnic reference attached!

If he was a sex offender, he’d be prosecuted. No one is saying the fellow should go to jail — just that his lack of professionalism means that the university doesn’t consider him fit to teach. It was his first teaching job ever, and clearly, he belongs in a different line of work. If you can’t see your students as people rather than objects, you don’t belong in the classroom.