I’ve made the decision to ban Mr. Bad and several other Men’s Rights Advocates from this blog. I’ve found the collective tone of their comments to be so unpleasant that I see no good reason why I ought to continue to allow them to participate.
Free speech is an important principle. But a blog is, in a sense, private. I’ll tolerate all sorts of folks on the street, but I see no reason to invite each and every one of them to dinner! This is my home, and it has my name on it. Everything that is posted here, both in the main posts and in the comments, needs to be civil. Yes, I know full well that some outside the MRA camp have been deeply unpleasant, but it is the MRAs who have most consistently hijacked the discussions here.
As an historian and the son and grandson of Jewish refugees from Central Europe, I am particularly offended by the term "feminazi." No one, ever, ever, ever, ought to compare feminism (or any other non-violent doctrine) to Nazism, even in jest. To even suggest that men today suffer in ways equivalent to Jewish suffering in the 1930s and 40s is so beyond the pale of acceptability that it alone is grounds for being banned from this blog.
Mind you, I believe everyone ought to have the right to post whatever they like on their own blogs. I’m a bit of a first-amendment zealot, actually. But my blog does not exist as a public forum; it is a place where I present anecdotes and musings, and others are invited to respond. The Men’s Rights Movement has plenty of sites for the spewing of anger and vitriol. I’ve tried very hard to make this a place where folks can "come together", but I’m afraid I can’t do so any longer.
For the time being, I’ll simply be deleting any future comments from MRAs. You fellas have my e-mail, you can blast away at me there. But not here.
Fine. Let’s have some more posts on books, teaching, etc. I could take the motto, “Too Many Books, Too Little Time”. One of the depressing parts of the MRA/anti-MRA harangues is that they are so stale, and rarely does one learn a new bit of information.
Just curious,
Who all got banned?
I suppose you are somewhat justified with the trolls. But some of the men here have been thoughtful and eloquent, even though they are not 100% in agreement with Feminist philosophy..
I guess if this message posts.. I wasn’t one of them, even though I don’t particularly align myself with MRA groups..
I’m not going to give a complete run-down, but no, not all who advance the MRA banner were banned. I’ve had some fine MRA posters in the past, like Stanton, whom I wouldn’t dream of banning. But some seem intent on de-railing discussion, and it was clearly driving some folks away.
Banning trolls makes sense, but I think your reaction the term “feminazi” is almost as over the top as that term itself is. Are you equally offended by the Soup Nazi, the Parking Gestapo, and all the other flip references to Nazis that are commonplace in modern society? If so, you really need to get out more. If not, why should rigid, humorless, ultra-militant feminists be exempt from the same ridicule society applies to equally rigid, equally humorless, equally militant everything-else-ists? After all, don’t the feminists want to be treated equally to men? To offer anything less smacks not of feminism but of a misplaced sense of chivalry.
XRLQ, the terms you cite are used in jest. There is a time and place for Nazi humor (think “The Producers”). But I see a world of difference between talking about the “parking gestapo” and referring to an entire movement to bring justice to women around the world as “feminazis.”
I don’t think it’s used in a flip sense, XRLQ; I think at least some of the MRAs really do consider the feminist movement to be the moral equivalent of Nazism. But whether they do or don’t, I’m not in the mood to ask them.
Thanks, Hugo. I don’t know if you saw my complaints about the MRAs here, but I really think that constant, non-stop thread drift is one of the top two or three troll crimes. I started banning people for drift even if they didn’t do anything else and the level of discourse at Pandagon improved dramatically.
If not, why should rigid, humorless, ultra-militant feminists be exempt from the same ridicule society applies to equally rigid, equally humorless, equally militant everything-else-ists?
Agreed. Also, while we’re at it, let’s start bitching about unicorns and leperchauns and how they are taking over our nation.
The “humorless feminist” stereotype is my hands-down, favorite strawman. I have people actually accusing me of humorlessness in threads where the original post is comical. One can only conclude that “humorless” means “refuses to laugh at my jokes when they aren’t really funny and insists that despite their womanly duty to flatter me, they prefer to laugh at stuff they actually find funny”.
Amanda, I never said you were a humorless feminist, but it’s one thing to say you are not a member of Group X, and quite another to conclude from that that Group X must not exist at all. If the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t wear it.
Hugo, I think if you were in the mood to ask the MRAs what they think about feminism vs. Nazism, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a single individual among them who thinks the two isms are morally equivalent, or who uses the term “feminazi” without intending at least some irony.
Well.
I remember quite vividly Mr. Bad arguing back and forth with one poster in particular. I now see that he is banned. I’ll be deeply disappointed if his “foil” is still permitted to post here while he is not.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find a single individual among them who thinks the two isms are morally equivalent, or who uses the term “feminazi” without intending at least some irony.
X, I trust you say this with full intellectual honesty, but I have to disagree that the term was meant in jest. I used to think so, but lately I’ve had to deal with so many anti-feminists who sincerely think that losing a single male privilege (some even are bitter that women can vote) is truly the equivalent of being gassed. But I’ve never met the supposed “humorless feminist” that people keep carrying on about. And I’m sure that I, as a feminist, know way more feminists than you probably ever will. (That’s not some kind of bragging–you surely know more conservatives and MRAs and whatever groups you align yourself with than I do.) And they tend to be funnier, more wry and definitely more witty than the average Joe (sephine). It’s a silly stereotype, and at this point, I would suggest not using it as a tool because it’s so laughably untrue that it kind of undermines your credibility.
Ugh, I can’t believe I just gave advice to an opponent. I’m being unnaturally fair.
Second amendment, eh? Well, that would make for some interesting Constitutional arguments. Free speech is a weapon that can be used in self-defense, and therefore censorship violates the second amendment.
“I’ll be deeply disappointed if his “foil” is still permitted to post here while he is not.”
His ‘foil’ was not involved in him being banned as he got banned (as I earlier told him he eventually would) due to his own character flaws. He continously argued with people, who when you scrapped away the histronics, basically agreed more with him then disagreed.
MRAs and feminists have many positions in common, many…although both would argue it.
So he got banned for failing to realize that and continuing to taunt his own potential allies. If he had acted, dare I say it, courteous enough) and just apologized to that woman for name calling (Nancy I think her name was) he would probably still be here.
So don’t try and drag me into this.
I’m a little sad to see Mr. Bad go: when he didn’t allow himself to be drawn into long, off-topic conversations, he could sometimes be interesting. The rest of the MRAs who regularly post here are a pretty reasonable lot. My first exposure to MRAs was the soc.men group, which is a vile cesspit of misogyny and assorted other prejudices, so it’s nice to see that there are MRAs out there with whom one can have a civil conversation.
Hugo > I don’t think it’s used in a flip sense, XRLQ; I think at least some of the MRAs really do consider the feminist movement to be the moral equivalent of Nazism. But whether they do or don’t, I’m not in the mood to ask them
While I agree that using the Nazi comparison is nothing but a cheap shot, you fell for the classic ruse people (not just feminists) use when they want to stifle dissent. They pick some word or phrase their opponent uses and suddenly get a bad case of the vapors. There was a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth about the word Nazi, but the end result, is that the dissent is eliminated.
People like feminazimartyrhater repeatedly trot out that tired old rhetoric in the hope of pushing a few feminist buttons and getting everyone so angry that discussion of issues is derailed, which is all he and the other trolls wanted in the first place. And you, Sally, Antigone, NancyP and Britgirl played right into it.
Yeah, Mr Bad let’s his anger get the best of him at times, but frequently his rebuttals to the posts here were reasonable as well as thought provoking. He was quick to point out feminist rhetoric, especially rhetoric that had no basis in fact, so I guess he had to go. Saying ‘feminazi’ was as good an excuse as any. All that was really accomplished was the limiting of diversity of ideas.
NYMOM >His ‘foil’ was not involved in him being banned as he got banned (as I earlier told him he eventually would) due to his own character flaws.
This is interesting.
I haven’t even posted on this thread and had no intention of doing so as the topic doesn’t interest me, yet a man who did post on it starts a fight and then has the nerve to claim I’m a persistent troublemaker.
It’s interesting.
Personally I think your rhetoric is every bit as insulting to men and fathers (and feminists) as the BS that feminazimartyrhater throws out there is to feminists. And no matter what the subject of the thread is, you want to bring your rhetoric into the discussion. If any one poster has done more to derail the topic of the recent threads, it has been you. Hugo is within his rights to ban anyone he wants, but if he was more interested in fairness, he would have included you in the ban.
The biggest mistake Mr Bad (and myself included) made was not completely ignoring your posts as most of the feminists here had the good sense to do.
Hugo:
Your blog — your rules. Agreed. As much as I disagree with Amanda, Mythago and Nancy P, I respect their passion and intelligence, even when they annoy me. But, NYMOM was part and parcel of the vitrol — she exacerbated it. Responding to her would elevate her posts to a level of respectability they don’t earn on their own. If you want people of good will with some modicum of intelligence to gather here to debate serious issues, you may want to consider a gender-neutral banning.
Stephen
“Personally I think your rhetoric is every bit as insulting to men and fathers (and feminists) as the BS that feminazimartyrhater throws out there is to feminists. And no matter what the subject of the thread is, you want to bring your rhetoric into the discussion. If any one poster has done more to derail the topic of the recent threads, it has been you. Hugo is within his rights to ban anyone he wants, but if he was more interested in fairness, he would have included you in the ban.”
Yet the difference is when I’m told to stop I do.
Additionally I sometimes got the impression that Mr. Bad didn’t really believe half of the stuff he sprouted, that he just did it to get attention from people (women) here. Just my own opinion, but many of his arguments seemed ’staged’.
I, on the other hand, never posted something to JUST get someone’s attention. Believe it or not I am sincere in EVERYTHING I say.
Thus there are MANY men on this site who could replace Mr. Bad (who is just arguing to get attention); but NO ONE to replace me.
Additionally I sincerely (not knowing him personally) but from what I’ve read here think I LIKE HUGO. I’m not too sure if Mr. Bad really did as some of his comments seemed downright mean to his host here, Hugo.
Plus the bigger issue, I NEVER would have continued a discussion calling someone a femi’nazi’ AFTER she told me many of her relatives were killed by the Nazis. I would have been humble enough to apologize.
That, unfortunately was the fatal flaw I referred to earlier. For some reason many MRAs appear to NOT want to extend common courtesy to women. It’s probably due to confusing common everyday COURTESY with chivalry. AND God forbid one of you should be accused of that.
I, on the other hand, am not rigid in that and would (and have) apologized to a man (or woman as the case may be) in many circumstances. Even on my own blog when a man pointed out to me that I said something about England in an article a few days before that bombing, I changed it.
Anyway like I said earlier Mr. Bad was fighting with people LONG before I started posting here again and was going to get banned sooner or later.
Do not try to drag me into his latest tantrum. As I had NOTHING to do with it.
Frankly if Mr. Bad had the decency to apologize right now to the woman he insulted, I have the feeling that Hugo’s heart would be big enough to let him back. Hugo is somewhat wobbly in that respect.
I concur with bmmg. But it’s Hugo’s call.
Gonna second mythago’s sentiments.
Suprise, suprise, I agree with Stephen. However, its your call.
Additionally I sometimes got the impression that Mr. Bad didn’t really believe half of the stuff he sprouted, that he just did it to get attention from people (women) here. Just my own opinion, but many of his arguments seemed ’staged’.
You know, whatever you and Mr Bad’s history is, I don’t really care. I just wish you two would get a motel room somewhere and stop bringing your petty crap to every site you visit.
I, on the other hand, never posted something to JUST get someone’s attention. Believe it or not I am sincere in EVERYTHING I say. Thus there are MANY men on this site who could replace Mr. Bad (who is just arguing to get attention); but NO ONE to replace me.
Actually, I do believe you are sincere. That’s why I also have to agree that even though there are plenty of man haters out there, you take it to the next level and I do believe no one here can replace you in this regard. Your level of baseless rhetoric is a cut above the rest. You are indeed one of a kind. At least I hope so.
Frankly if Mr. Bad had the decency to apologize right now to the woman he insulted, I have the feeling that Hugo’s heart would be big enough to let him back. Hugo is somewhat wobbly in that respect.
Hugo seems like a great guy. I have a lot of admiration for what he is trying to achieve both in his personal life, and his professionsal and blogging life. He has a good thing going here. I respect that and I hate seeing it disrupted as much as the next person. I think people that come here to rationally and intelligently discuss feminist and masculinist issues have a well moderated forum to do so. But unlike some here, I think it is important to question rhetoric from both camps and expose it to the light of day. That’s the way men and women come together in a positive way to solve gender issues and Hugo has the first blog I’ve seen that consistently tries to do that. I’ve learned a lot here and I’ve changed a lot of my own preconceived notions about men and women from the many thoughtful posts I’ve read. That is why I keep coming back.
But if Hugo wants to drop the “Cone of Silence†on men’s opinions, then his blog’s content reverts back to the same old tired feminist dogma. The one where women trot out textbook feminist rhetoric and clichés, and the rest of the women pat themselves on the back and compare stories about how they’ve suffered from the patriarchy and been abused by the issue being discussed. How boring… And how useless.
“But if Hugo wants to drop the “Cone of Silence†on men’s opinions, then his blog’s content reverts back to the same old tired feminist dogma. The one where women trot out textbook feminist rhetoric and clichés, and the rest of the women pat themselves on the back and compare stories about how they’ve suffered from the patriarchy and been abused by the issue being discussed. How boring… And how useless.”
Well I hope you weren’t including me in that as I am NOT a feminist as I’ve said many times.
But really you are confusing the issue somewhat.
Mr. Bad got banned because he attacked feminist women here calling them feminazis and then when CONFRONTED with it by a woman who clearly stated that her relatives were killed in Nazi death camps (even giving the ages of her father’s cousins who died ranging in age from about 3 to 9 I believe) Mr. Bad continued with his rhetoric comparing feminists and Nazis. Totally discounting this woman’s REAL suffering for some MRA politically correct rhetorical bs.
First, it is mainly feminist women posting on this blog, thus you cannot get away with constantly insulting them, which is what Mr. Bad did all the time. Not even understanding that they agreed with him on MANY issues and there was no need to exhibit this chip on his shoulder that Mr. Bad had towards women in general.
Second of all, he could have still saved himself by apologizing to that woman I think. Yet he couldn’t lower himself to do that because he would consider it chivalry to apologize to a woman, as opposed to common courtesy.
Remember, pride goeth before a fall.
Mr. Bad needs to learn to be less arrogant towards women. As he was extremely arrogant with me; but got away with it since I’m not one of the group here. That might have lead to his downfall really more then anything, making him think he could overstep the boundaries set up here because he got away with doing it to me.
I guess he didn’t really understand when I said I was NOT a feminist.
I am AMAZED that NYMOM has not also been banned. I typically fing MUCH of what she writes to be hysterical man-hating rage. Most, if not all, insulting, and not even close to being based in fact.
I won’t argue with your banning of Mr. Bad; I’m not going to take sides in that.
But to me, on this blog, and on Trish Wilson’s, it’s AMAZING the posters who get to stay and the ones who get banned.
There’s one poster in particular on Amp’s and on Trish’s, who cusses like a sailor and insults you up and down when you disagree with her. And she gets to stay. Always. Without any admonishment from the site-owner.
So, I’m not convinced of the fairness of the banning policy here or on other sites. But hey, it’s your blog, do what you want. I do get a chuckle when you say it’s for one reason but it seems very clearly to be for many others as well.
I am a man. My father and grandfather are men. I am offended at being described as a useless encumbrance. Are you going to apologise to me, NYMOM?
Ahh….
Silence the dissenters, this is why MRA compare feminism to the nazis.
Join the ranks of, Amanda, and Trish Wilson.
Antifeminazimartyrhater: “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.†(George Orwell)
1. My Unceremonious Re-Introduction to Marxism in Action
I just don’t get you dude. I bet I’ve seen this sh*t posted about 20 times on SYG. Can’t you come up with something worthwhile to discuss on your own? I mean.. Do you got to keep on pasting the same old tired crap into your messages over and over? There are so many legitimate gender issues to discuss… What do you think you are trying to accomplish trolling with this mess? You are just making it tough for the rest of the guys here that want to debate real issues of both the feminists and MRA’s
You know, when I visit SYG I see a lot of smart guys. Guys that express their concerns eloquently and effectively. There are real issues that need to be discussed. And they are at least taking a shot at it. But you? Your crap is embarrassing. You got to be an embarrassment to them as a group. Try to come up with an original thought. Something productive perhaps.
MRA’s have real issues of importance. Issues that affect our children. Our livelihood. Our family. Why don’t you drop this Marxist crap.
Besides, Im not an “MRA”.
For our sake I hope not. You know, I enjoyed Mr. Bad’s posts. But your dumbsh*t trolls got everyone so riled up that they ended up taking it out on him. He was at least debating honestly. Thanks a lot asshole.
Honestly, you are no better than NYMOM. Go back an explain to Galt and Dr. Evil what a dumbsh*t you are. And tell Mr. Bad I miss his rants.
Why is it everyone with a web page thinks they run the entire Internet? “My blog is private because I said so, even though I posted it on the Internet for all to see!”
MRAs do the exact same thing. I hear from Dr. Evil at SYG all the time about how it’s a private board. A private board? Huh? It’s the Internet. A private log is one that’s not online. :-)
Anyway, I’m going to be featuring Hugo on my blog soon, http://dumbcunts.blogspot.com. Feel free to come hate on me there as I absolutely garuntee you’ll all be offended there. :-D
If you stop by, rest assured, I have a totally different policy…
1. No comments are edited or deleted.
2. I can take a punch.
3. I don’t denounce the natural progression of a discussion as “going off topic.”
The anti-marxist rhetoriticians should also keep in mind that feminism has been most successful in the capitalist west, and, has been used by capitalists for one example, as a way to further capitalist profits as can be seen in sitcoms and commercials to sell pointless products.
So from my point of view, to focus on marxism while ignoring feminism’s greatest success being within capitalism, is simply a burp of hot air.
Capitalists and Marxists have so much in common, power.
“I am a man. My father and grandfather are men. I am offended at being described as a useless encumbrance. Are you going to apologise to me, NYMOM?”
NYMOM said: Sure John I’m sincerely sorry if I offended you.
Okay.
Not that I believe you for a minute as I put up that post you are referring to last week. Yet you never even mentioned it until you saw me saying Mr. Bad should apologize to someone he insulted.
But unlike Mr. Bad I don’t consider it beneath me to apologize to someone if I offended them.
“Honestly, you are no better than NYMOM. Go back an explain to Galt and Dr. Evil what a dumbsh*t you are.”
NYMOM said: Now I’m insulted Michael.
Since EVERYBODY is better then feminazihatemartyr.
He never has anything original to say. He’s been sending me emails for months now and every one pretty much says the same thing: for me to move to North Korea.
“Anyway, I’m going to be featuring Hugo on my blog soon, http://dumbcunts.blogspot.com. Feel free to come hate on me there as I absolutely garuntee you’ll all be offended there. :-D”
NYMOM said: By the way Test Subject just to let you know I wrote to Google last week (as they own Blogger who hosts your blog) complaining about some blogs that keep posting my personal information on them. I happened to include your blog in my email, as I don’t think you are allowed to post blogs with names like that on the internet.
Maybe Blogger is getting slack but I don’t think Google, which is a much larger company and owns Blogger actually, will be overlooking it.
So you better look for another name for your blog before they contact you.
“The anti-marxist rhetoriticians should also keep in mind that feminism has been most successful in the capitalist west, and, has been used by capitalists for one example, as a way to further capitalist profits as can be seen in sitcoms and commercials to sell pointless products.
So from my point of view, to focus on marxism while ignoring feminism’s greatest success being within capitalism, is simply a burp of hot air.
Capitalists and Marxists have so much in common, power.”
Yes, your analysis makes so much sense.
A lot of people don’t realize this but a chimpanzee is very powerful as well. Does that mean a chimp, marxism and capitalism have a lot in common.
According to your theory, yes.
“NYMOM, Well? Have your packed it up yet?”
Very predictable.
Boy you have more twists then a pretzel, since I thought Hugo banned you months ago. How the heck do you keep being able to post back on this blog?
“Yes, your analysis makes so much sense.
A lot of people don’t realize this but a chimpanzee is very powerful as well. Does that mean a chimp, marxism and capitalism have a lot in common.
According to your theory, yes.”
If the chimp was in control of one part of the world and, in that part of the world feminism was most successful, not to mention the chimp profiting from feminism. Would it not be foolish of someone who claimed to be a matryr of feminism to focus entirely on the one half of the world where feminism was least successful in?
Why would a matryr of feminism do such a thing as ignore the chimp?
And the commonality between the capitalist and the marxist is power ‘over’ other people.
The chimpanzee has powerful muscles, but, his muscless do not allow him to control the economy and social life as does the capitalist and the marxist.
Sure. I read it. I don’t usually find such stuff worthy of response, until that is, you began parading your non-offensive credentials, when in fact, you seem to delight in offending people. I thank you for your apology. It is appreciated.
So no one is allowed to use analogies if one person may have relatives from that time? If peope honestly see corralations between nazi Germany and feminist America, then why can’t they say that?
I don’t think he owes anyone an apology. He did not ‘insult’ anyone, he used a coined phrase which explains his position. Instead of feeling offended (which is different than being insulted), perhaps she should have made an arguement why she feels the name does not fit. Crying special interest group to shut down discussion is unfair.
Usually this blog is a little more reasonable.
NYMOM, you are the LAST person who should be talking about insulting people. Your views on men make Hitler look like a hippie peace lover. And while you apologize now, tommorrow you will be right back at it, so you just wasted blog space. And if you did not want your real life info out there, don’t post it on the web. You made that bed. Last I knew, you complained, they removed the offending material, and then you continued to bitch and threaten people for weeks. No one really cares that much to actually do anything with that information. You are putting far too much importance to yourself where other people are concerned. People have better things to do than stalk you.
Jen
“Sometimes I feel like a nut…….”
My name is bukowski as you may or may not have noticed. In fact I will post at SYG sometimes. That is where I found this link. I am not NYMOM if that is what your post was somehow saying. But, I apologize, I have no idea what your post was saying. So I think I am done here.
“And the commonality between the capitalist and the marxist is power ‘over’ other people.”
But if you are going to use that to explain ’systems’ then every system has power over some people. It would make it impossible to differentiate amongst any systems using that logic.
I think your point was that you were trying to claim feminism had more power in societies that were captalist, rather then marxist? Was that the point you were trying to make?
If so that was wrong too as the Soviet Union was really what you would have called a ‘feminist paradise’ with few if any distinctions made between men and women, at least in the early years.
As time went on and the model progressively met failure, it started reverting back to tradition and before the collapse of the Soviet Union the sex roles had completely reverted back to being even MORE traditional then the US. Now very few women are in the armed forced there and even fewer men helping around the house with children.
So actually feminism has probably enabled the US to allow people to experiment far more with sex roles then in any marxist system.
But that has benefitted men I think. Unless you want to argue for more rigid roles for men and women, like before feminism here.
I mean MRA are arguing for gender neutral treatment of men vis-a-vis children as well as drafting women. The only way you could even argue those issues are due to feminism which AGREES with you all on those two major issues.
So what in the heck are you coming down on feminism for??? That’s the real question. They agree with you on those issues. Many feminists even think pornography is empowerment of women. I mean what more do they have to do to convince you they are on your side.
“Sure. I read it. I don’t usually find such stuff worthy of response, until that is, you began parading your non-offensive credentials, when in fact, you seem to delight in offending people. I thank you for your apology. It is appreciated.”
NYMOM said: Well I never said I was non-offensive. Any point of view that differs from someone else’s is probably going to be offensive at some point. I don’t take delight in offending people as you think, but I do get riled up when I hear men talking nonsense about being discriminated against in some area, when in fact it’s not true.
For instance, many studies have shown it’s mothers who are discriminated against in family court, not fathers at all. I don’t say that to offend people but because I believe it’s the truth. No one on this board has probably ever brought that to your attention since as I said earlier MRAs and feminists have MANY ideas/theories in common and this is an offshoot of one of them.
But’s let not start that argument here.
The bottom line is I don’t think that Mr. Bad’s viewpoint was what got him banned. It was because he compared feminists to nazis even when he was informed that one of the posters had family killed by nazis.
Some comparison are just too offensive to people and that could be one of them. There hasn’t been enough years between the death camps and people’s memories yet. Like those arguments still going on about dropping the atomic bomb on Japan, too soon to discuss rationally yet.
Crap, I just realized I had anonymous comments disabled! Fixed!
“I don’t think he owes anyone an apology. He did not ‘insult’ anyone, he used a coined phrase which explains his position. Instead of feeling offended (which is different than being insulted), perhaps she should have made an arguement why she feels the name does not fit. Crying special interest group to shut down discussion is unfair.”
NYMOM said: No it isn’t unfair. If you are who I think you are you do it ALL the time at SYG because you claim that when they call stay-at-home moms there parasites, that you are personally insulted.
You actually were warned twice already by Dr. Evil to stop attacking people personally as you got upset by the postings implying housewives were useless today and just a drain on their husbands.
So don’t come here now and say some other woman doesn’t have the right to be insulted for being compared to (coined phrase) a Nazi. It’s never a coined phrase to call someone that AFTER they told you they had relatives killed in death camps under the Nazis.
Okay.
The woman made an argument (a very good one) as to why the analogue isn’t correct and Mr. Bad persisted anyway.
Plus the bottom line is this Mr. Bad doesn’t even LIKE Hugo. That’s my impression. He’s constantly making snide remarks to and about him both here and at SYG. Why should someone have to put up with that on their own turf? In fact they don’t.
“NYMOM, you are the LAST person who should be talking about insulting people. Your views on men make Hitler look like a hippie peace lover.”
NYMOM said: Believe it or not my views on men are incidental to what I’m about. I consider myself an advocate for women in their role as mothers. I argue with men and others who try to attack women in that role. AND yes, I consider it an attack when men talk about trying to take custody of children from mothers, trying to get mothers drafted, cutting benefits so mothers have to be forced to work while their children are infants, etc.,
Just as you go into attack mode when they try to attack stay-at-home mothers or housewives on SYG, so don’t preach to me. You do the same crap over there.
“And if you did not want your real life info out there, don’t post it on the web. You made that bed. Last I knew, you complained, they removed the offending material, and then you continued to bitch and threaten people for weeks.”
NYMOM said: NO. I did not post my life on the web. AND no they erased the name but left up the lie posted by LSBeene about what I did. Trying to incite men into thinking I was in a position of power at my job to hurt young men or something.
The entire thread should have been erased and yes, to this DAY I am still getting hate emails from people because of that thread. STILL…
So that was Dr. Evil fault. He bears the responsibility and the liability for that incident as I contacted him personally to discuss it. He chose not to act, so that was on him.
Why do you feel the need anyway to defend these people? I hate to tell you this but they appear to have nothing but contempt for you and what you do for your family over there (as they do for women in general anyway).
Has this Mr. Bad ever rushed to your defense when you were practically called a parasite over there because you stay at home and take care of your family? No.
Has Dr. Evil ever intervened for you on those threads to say not to attack stay-at-home mothers because a long-time member of SYG was being insulted by it. No. Oh forgive me yes, he did. He intervened to tell you he was going to ban YOU if you insulted those who attack YOU constantly.
So what in the heck are you wasting your time defending any of them for??? I hate to say it but you are a perfect example of why women will never get anywhere, UNTIL we stop defending those who hate us.
“I argue with men and others who try to attack women in that role. AND yes, I consider it an attack when men talk about trying to take custody of children from mothers…”
You mean when FATHERS (not some anonymous band of men) seek at least partial custody of THEIR children.
“”I hate to say it but you are a perfect example of why women will never get anywhere, UNTIL we stop defending those who hate us.”"
Everyone must work harder to end their hatred because as you can see its tearing the world apart. Try to pray for those who hate you. This is the only way to overcome the rage inside yourself and feel their pain.
“”I hate to say it but you are a perfect example of why women will never get anywhere, UNTIL we stop defending those who hate us.”"
Everyone must work harder to end their hatred because as you can see its tearing the world apart. Try to pray for those who hate you. This is the only way to overcome the rage inside yourself and feel their pain.
“I argue with men and others who try to attack women in that role. AND yes, I consider it an attack when men talk about trying to take custody of children from mothers…”
You mean when FATHERS (not some anonymous band of men) seek at least partial custody of THEIR children.”
NYMOM said: No. Not at all.
Actually I am a strong supporter of presumptive Joint Custody as I see it as the lesser of MANY evils that can befall women and children, if we don’t support it. Really if you look at the track record of feminism, most feminists don’t support Joint Custody, as they claim it allows abusive men to CONTINUE abusing women and children. So there are many differing opinions on this issue, not all so obvious.
However back to your other point: it really is an anonymous band of men also supporting mothers losing custody of their children. The biggest issue for me is that many of the men supporting policies that would lead to that, don’t even have any kids. Perfect example: Angry Harry. What in the heck is that guy angry about? He doesn’t even HAVE any kids, yet he’s in there instigating 24/7 telling other men that the courts are biased against them??? How the heck does he know that?
So there is ALSO an anonymous band of men instigating these issues amongst others, who have nothing at stake in this whatsoever since a number of them have stated they don’t even want any kids. So probably they should mind their own business and quit making comments about family courts, mothers, children, fathers being discriminated against, etc., especially since many don’t appear to know what they are talking about.
Basically they just say these things almost as a recruiting tool to convince other men to be discontented and unhappy so they join with them.
Just my opinion, of course everyone else will feel differently.
Yup, that’s me. I never asked Dr E to ban anyone, I never asked anyone to intervene. I have met these people in real life, the ones who matter agree with me and allow me to fight my own battles. The ones that don’t didn’t bother to show up. I choose to keep arguing, it is my bed. Dr E warned me because I broke the rules. He warns everyone who breaks rules. He does not ban for offending someones tender sensibilities. I wouldn’t post there if it were that PC.
if you notice, about 3-4 people come down on me, other than trolls. There are hundreds of users there, I will take the 3 or 4 who resent me, since they are self admittedly the ones who just sit and bitch and never actually go out and DO anything about these problems.
Beene took down that material that same day. You stalked him even after he took down the materials. Nice try.
You stand for a unreal, mother-on-a-pedastal goddess which does not exist. Women are not saints, carrying a child does not make you a parent. Fathers can be equally attached to a child before it is born. Just yesterday my neighbor was telling me her fiance’s first wife cheated on him, then told him he was the father of the baby she was carrying. He went to every appointment, talked to the baby every day, bonded so deeply when the child came out obviously not his, he didn’t care-he loved that boy and still does. He now has custody after the court awarded her custody and she left the kids with her aunt and permanantly took off for Texas from NY. So much for your theory of men being indifferent about children, or women being such perfect mothers.
Men are asking to be involved in their children’s lives just like mothers. Since the number one indicater for child delinquency is lack of a father, if you gave a crap about kids you would be supporting them, not fighting them. Fighting dads is damning the kids. Society already legally and socially supports the mothers. No one supports the fathers, and the state of our kids shows it.
I don’t frequent this blog very often but someone suggested I have a look at this thread and since it was about “banning” it stimulated my interest.
I am delighted to see that many have pointed out the inconsistency of banning only men who support anti-feminist postitions while ignoring their adversaries. This sort of action only strengthens the accusation of many that feminists simply cannot tolerate dissent. I will be curious to see how Hugo responds to the opinions of his readers.
For the record, I love Jen and have a deep respect for her as a woman and as a loving mother. We had the good fortune to meet in person at the Men’s Equality Congress back in July. If anyone attacked her on SYG I would defend her just as I would defend any other poster from a personal attack. However, the discussion about housewives is not about a personal attack it is about attacking a “role.” That is well within the rules of the forum. Jen does not need my help. She is plenty able to take care of herself.
“For the record, I love Jen and have a deep respect for her as a woman and as a loving mother. We had the good fortune to meet in person at the Men’s Equality Congress back in July.”
NYMOM said: Awwww. That’s nice. Thank God you respect her so much otherwise I’d hate to see what you’d REALLY do to her. You almost banned her recently telling her she was on her SECOND WARNING. Now you love and respect her.
“If anyone attacked her on SYG I would defend her just as I would defend any other poster from a personal attack. However, the discussion about housewives is not about a personal attack it is about attacking a “role.” That is well within the rules of the forum.”
NYMOM said: So then it’s okay for people on your site to call stay-at-home mothers=parisites, feminists=feminazis and men you disagree with maginas.
Following your nitpicky rules that’s okay.
Well that’s your site, your rules.
Hugo has different ones obviously and attacking feminists by calling them feminazis ain’t allowed. So that’s what your bad boy did and now he’s out.
Sorry.
Don’t try and involve me in it however as I’m not even a feminist so had nothing to do with the whole thing.
If Jen wishes to defend your site after being disrespected, fine with me.
I could care less.
Just to give her a little warning however Hugo told myself and Mr. Bad that he did NOT want us dragging arguments from other sites over to his, so if Jen continues, she’s probably going to get a warning from here as well. Then she’ll be ALMOST banned from two MRA sites.
This is NOT an MRA site, it is a feminist site. I was warned for calling someone “full of shit”. That is a personal attack. If someone had said “Jen is a parasite” then I would consider that a personal attack. But it was the position of housewives in general, and I responded by arguing the point, not taking personal offence. It may have pissed me off, but that does not mean I have a right to tell others how they may post.
I am not dragging any arguements, it was you who brought it up. Look back a few posts. I was addressing what you said on this forum. You brought into it the SYG stuff. Nice try.
ANyone who respects me enough to treat me like any other poster, no matter if I am black, white, man, woman, whatever has my respect. Warning me for breaking the rules is part of that. That IS supposed to be what equality is about, isn’t it? Treating others….uh…equally?
Special treatment because I am a woman is NOT something I am interested in. You give children, or mentally handicapped special treatment, because they need it. I would prefer equal treatment, thank you.
“This is NOT an MRA site, it is a feminist site.”
NYMOM said: Hugo is a profeminist MRA I believe.
“I am not dragging any arguements, it was you who brought it up. Look back a few posts. I was addressing what you said on this forum. You brought into it the SYG stuff. Nice try.”
NYMOM said: Yes, you did bring it up by declaring that feminazi was a ‘coined phrase’ so implying feminists on this site had no right to object to it. I compared your reaction to people attacking stay-at-home mothers as parasites with feminists getting angry about being called nazis.
It’s the same principle.
Plus you also brought up all that crap about someone posting my personal info on SYG, not that it was any of your business anyway or has anything to do with what’s going on now.
But yes, you did bring it up first. Go back and look at your own first post. I was responding to you about that.
AND again Hugo has asked people NOT to bring up issues from other blogs to this one.