No, Mr. Bad, it’s not. Please read carefully: I didn’t say “most men are interested in ‘lesbian’ porn” or “most men harass bisexual women.” Only that there are enough of them to drive a large sector of the porn market, and that it’s a common experience for out bisexual women to have experienced a lot of harassment.

We really aren’t bothered or “confused” by naked men - we see them all the time in the mirror and in the locker room

In a sexual context?

I think we’re missing something if we think of this strictly in terms of people being turned off from associating themselves with queer folk, though - there are advantages to it as well, which I think are more obvious to women. Queer-friendly spaces tend to be feminist-friendly, for one, and gay women generally feel like less of a sexual threat than straight men.

myth, I think that this is once again a case of women assuming that men are a lot more interested in them and their activities than we really are. Trust me, I don’t care to watch you all, not does anyone that I know.

Continuing: “The best explanation I’ve heard for this is the idea that it’s sex, but there’s no guy in the picture to look at–too confusing if you’re getting turned on and there’s a naked man there, too. Though I think your ‘recipient’ theory also makes a good point.”

Again, I think you’re assuming way too much here. We really aren’t bothered or “confused” by naked men - we see them all the time in the mirror and in the locker room, and we are fully aware of what we’re all about. Are you passively suggesting that we’re a bunch of latent homophobes? If so, I’m mildly offended by that IMO negative stereotype.

I have no idea whether or not you’re in the majority on this, but certainly there’s a huge market for “lesbian” porn. (And just about every out bisexual woman I know wishes she had a “No, You Can’t Watch” T-shirt.)

The best explanation I’ve heard for this is the idea that it’s sex, but there’s no guy in the picture to look at–too confusing if you’re getting turned on and there’s a naked man there, too. Though I think your ‘recipient’ theory also makes a good point.

Lynn, as a straight man, I couldn’t agree with you more. Lesbians hold no attraction whatsoever for me - whether or not they would be considered physically beautiful - and I know of no other straight men that feel differently. Yes, some men enjoy woman-on-woman porn, but I think it’s the eroticism enjoyed by the ‘recipient’ that turns the guys on. It’s similar to seeing hetero porn: The men ignore the ‘giver’ (in this case, the man) and focus on the responses of the ‘recipient;’ the ‘giver’ is irrelevant. Which IMO is why gay porn mostly does nothing for men (except perhaps grossing them out), because in that case the ‘recipient’ is just another guy.

Except that “lesbian” in the whole faux-porn mentality means “has sex with women,” not “won’t have sex with men.”

Good point, thanks Sarah, I think you might be right and rape-as-hate-crime would be really hard to track down. And actually I did think of Brandon Teena (sp?) as a counter-example when I was writing that. I’m basing my statement on what I’ve seen personally, which is that my lesbian friends have mostly had an easier time coming out. I’m curious whether being an out queer woman makes you more likely to get raped?

That said, I was physically threatened / gay bashed and almost got into a fistfight at my senior prom. Ironically, I hear the guy who started it came out sometime in college. What may have saved me was that it was public, and he would have gotten a lot of flak for hitting a girl 70 pounds lighter than him. I think if I were a guy, or if no one else had been present, it might have gotten pretty ugly.

But I’ve just heard of so much worse than that happening to gay men in high school.

To put things in context, I graduated in ‘97 and my school was in a medium-sized midwestern city.

>women have more latitude to experiment with bisexuality than men do.

Again, from personal experience… plenty of out bi female friends. NO out bi male friends. Several male friends who, after a couple drinks, will admit that they are attracted to both sexes but only sleep with women (or only sleep with men). I do think it’s because bi men are likely to get the same flak from homophobes as gay men and in addition have a hard time being accepted by either the straight or the gay community. (And this is in san francisco.)

>your thesis that women are “braver” than men

Well, to be precise it was his student’s thesis and he didn’t so much endorse it as say it’s “worth considering” which, given the interesting things people have had to say on this thread, it seems it was. :)

And congrats, Hugo, on the wedding.