NYMOM said “But my question is WHY is somebody automatically considered to need therapy because they wish to avoid seeing a loved one in pain????”

The point is that sometimes one’s wishes to avoid unpleasant and stressful things are outweighed by one’s responsibilities to the people one loves. I sat by my mother’s side as she was dying of cancer, even though I’m scared to death of hospitals and needles and blood, even though there is nothing in the world a child fears more than the death of a parent. It broke my heart to see her suffering and not be able to do anything to help, but I did it anyway. Why? Because I loved her, and she needed me. If my husband was ever sick or hurt I would do the same for him, and I would expect him to be willing to do the same for me. Romantic partners have responsibilities towards one another - we face the things we fear for the sake of those we love. Add the fact that the child being born is just as much a part of the father as it is a part of the mother, and it’s not unreasonable to assume that he will be there for the birth, both to support the mother and to welcome his child into the world.

Just FYI, I dislike the phrase “such and such needs therapy” as it is generally a pejorative way to say that one dislikes or dissaproves of the person in question by implying that they are mentally ill rather than a clinical diagnosis. It often seems more like a passive/aggressive way to criticise someone than an attempt to offer help. It’s one of those terms we use so often out of context that it starts to lose it’s real meaning, which is a shame, as there are some situations in which therapy can be genuinely helpful.

And now it is definately bedtime. Happy thoughts to Hugo and his new wife..

But that is me.

Childbirth isn’t pain unto death, it is unto life - the father is half that baby. I was there to see my son into the world, and I wouldn’t have missed it for the world.

I can understand an aversion to blood, and screaming - but the rewards far outweigh. Some things people need to face.

Any indication there that the man might be blaming himself? Might have his avoidance a subconscious one which he is not aware he needs therapy for? (And I agree he needs therapy).”

NYMOM said: But my question is WHY is somebody automatically considered to need therapy because they wish to avoid seeing a loved one in pain????

Or if the one going to be in pain doesn’t want him to see it anyway????

Why is this automatically a sign that someone needs therapy????

Actually in most surgeries doctors don’t let ‘loved ones’ in the room as they know how traumatizing this is and generally the first thing they do is block immediate relatives from seeing what’s going on…

This is no different. It’s actually a lot worse comparatively speaking then surgery which is much more calm and controlled then labor and delivery.

How about now?

Did that undo it?

And let’s get the full quote - in context - instead of cherry-picking:

If someone is deeply disturbed seeing their loved one in pain, I understand that.(Insert unspoken “BUT” here) I just think he should be an adult and consider what he can and can’t deal with, get counseling if he realizes he thought he could deal and really couldn’t, and take responsibility for that instead of blaming his wife.

Any indication there that the man might be blaming himself? Might have his avoidance a subconscious one which he is not aware he needs therapy for? (And I agree he needs therapy).

Those are two top of the head examples of non perjoratives. However, I notice you said his behavior was childish (be an adult), irresponsible(take responsibility, as opposed to not), and accused him - John Q. Random - of “Blaming The Woman” (As opposed to blaming himself for causing her pain, my first “top of the head” non-perjoritive.)

No, Metamanda, I don’t think I missed the mark at all with you. I think you might have motivations that you wish you didn’t have, and do, even if you are blind to them in yourself. (At least I hope you wish you didn’t have.)

You left out the most important, crucial factor: As long as those “others” aren’t MRAs, because according to you we don’t know anything about feminist theory, instead only working from the basis of our “own personal issues with women” (which BTW IMO is an example of projection on your part).

BritGirlSF continues:“If you started describing the history of the MRM and were unable to finish the task, would you ask a feminist to finish it for you? Unlikely.”

Ah, but there’s a crucial difference between what you said before and the example you give now: Before, you specifically stated that MRAs should not “chime in” offering their takes on male/female relations and divorce; now you’re changing your tune and trying to spin your comments to give the impression that you merely meant that you weren’t asking us MRAs for our take. It’s like saying the signs on the doors of establishments 50 years ago in the southern U.S. saying “colored people need not apply” meant that they merely weren’t specifically asking them to apply for the job. Yeah, right.

No, I wouldn’t ask a feminist to finish a history of the MRM were I to start one and not complete it (something that BTW I would not do), but on the other hand, I wouldn’t say “feminists need not offer their insights and comments” either. I respect diverse points of view a lot more than that.

Now mythago, what was it you were saying about acribing motives to others? I believe that BGSF has described herself as a Third Waver when she referred to her predecessors as “Second Wavers,” so I was simply building on that. If I was wrong about her being a Third Waver, then I apologize. But methinks you too are projecting so I won’t give it any more consideration.

Because then he needn’t address anything you say directly. Simply labelling you a “Third Waver” (whatever that means) and assuming that what some feminists believe, you must too, is simply a way to get you to waste time disproving stereotypes.