so far, no feminists that i know of are involved in services i linked to above. the only reactions i have seen to these groups is either ignoring them or lambasting them (NOW is particularly good at this). the reason you aren’t seeing feminists work with men’s groups is because of the focus of the services. it would be generalized, as opposed to female-oriented. honestly, the only feminist i have known to even so much as list sites on male abuse on her site was wendy macelroy. there are none listed here, or on trish’s site, or most of the sites linked on the more popular feminist blogs.

bg

bg wrote: Okay, but air it where, exactly, if the public stations we’re talking about already believe us to be a horde of misogynistic neanderthals?

IIRC, what was said about the current documentary was that abused men weren’t included because they didn’t find enough who would do the documentary. I didn’t see anything about PBS not being willing to air a documentary that included information about abused men. So find men willing to do the documentary, then get with PBS about airing the show.

I never said it was. Many female victims are loath to come forward. But let’s be honest, here:

– Which gender of victims is more often expected to respond to their abuse with stoicism and passiveness?

– Which gender of victims is neglected in the very names of most of the domestic violence shelters?

– Which gender of victims is more likely to be disbelieved, ignored, ridiculed, and/or falsely arrested (arresting the victim)?

– Which gender is continually portrayed in the entertainment media as being assaulted by the opposite gender as a form of humor and/or sex appeal?

– Which gender of victims, for all of the reasons above, is therefore far less likely to come forward — and therefore will never show up in those statistics that contend that the total group of victims “overwhelmingly” comprise the opposite sex?

Cait: “But since that didn’t happen, why don’t you and your organization work on putting such a show together.”

Okay, but air it where, exactly, if the public stations we’re talking about already believe us to be a horde of misogynistic neanderthals?

bg

I think any one-sided presentation is bad. Period; it is a matter of principle. The ends do not justify the means.

Once again, though, the cult of feminism attacks the heretic, objects to the presentation - by avoids actually answering the arguments.

Gonz, there’s a difference between relating the pertanent information from our own pasts and using that information to publicly slam another person. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I accept that your daughter lived a different version of that old story than the version I lived. But it does none of us any good to go into name-calling matches because of it.

Name-calling doesn’t solve the problem. It doesn’t open people’s eyes to the abuses that occur. It doesn’t help the adults and children who are victims of abuse. It doesn’t help the abusers learn to stop abusing.

I figured you’d know it by now - I’m a proponent for FIXING THE PROBLEMS. That concerns me far more than does hanging on to old hurts and anger, or using those old hurts and angers as justification to inflict more hurt on others.

Trish pointed out that she learned that the MRA groups *CAN* organize to work toward a common goal. That is a strength she saw come from this PBS documentary.

She also said she hopes that the MRA groups utilize that ability to organize to implement programs that will help solve the problems around which you gather. Just think what good could be done if all that negative emotion and energy were turned around and put to use making positive changes in our society. Just think what could be accomplished if the *reasonable* MRAs and the *reasonable* feminists worked together to fix the problems they see in common!

Alright, hold up there. We seem to be writing at cross purposes. Please show me what it is that I wrote that you felt came across as “reacting in anger because they want to be included.”

when i read the comments you posted, none of them makes me think that what happened to my brothers, my cousins, my friends, even my father and uncles, was wrong. what i take from your comments is that it does not happen as much, and to talk about it, or to want it included in discussions on abuse, somehow hurts women. if i were to have read this thread when i first left home, i would not take from it that it’s okay for me to call for help or turn my family in. (i would not have done anyway, but that is beside the point.) i would not have known that it was just as wrong for the women in my life to have hurt me the way the men in my life did. and i certainly would not have known that my age or gender did not matter, especially from the beginning of this thread.

no one is going to know they can make anything change if they get the reactions that came from the feminists on this thread. i can assure you, that sort of reaction makes male victims back off and keep silent rather than be attacked for speaking up. and if you honestly want men to come foward and speak about their abuse, then reacting in anger because they want to be included does not help.