Please enlighten me.

I doubt very much that any of those miners had to deal with finding semen in their lockers, sex-toys in their lunchboxes, sexual assaults and stalking by their coworkers and supervisors, rumors and grafitti (in feces) smearing them about their (supposed) sexual proclivities, and having their port-a-potty turned over and feces dumped on them.

IOW, they didn’t have to take it, or worse. And while I understand the fear/reluctance for a bystander to stand up to snivelling bullies, I don’t buy that they got worse.

the bolded part is extremely important. i went to an all-boy high school, and one of the unspoken rules was that if you saw someone being picked on and you tried to do something about it, you became the new pick. it’s not that no one wanted to do anything. in fact, when the bullies were gone, you would have been surprised at how the boys reacted to the victim. total sympathy. but none of them wanted to be picked on, bullied, or harrassed.

another reason at play was that most of us pretty much knew that if we were in that situation, no one would step in for us, so why put our necks out for someone who would not do the same. i think this comes into play on a much larger scale with genders because most females are not going to step in if males are harrassed. it certainly happens sometimes, but it is less common than males standing up for women. and considering how he would be ostracized, the question any guy is probably asking himself is “is this worth the crap i’m going to have to put with (because she’s certainly not going to back me up)?”

another element is that it might be considered as part of the hazing rituals. with guys, there is this other unspoken rule that if someone complains about the things you had to endure, and as a result gets out of it, they’re out of the group. in other words, “don’t rock the boat. i took it, and worse, so you can handle this little thing. if you can’t, you’re done. you’re not one of us.”

it isn’t always like that, but i think these are at leats some of the things at play.

Karl_the_Idiot responds: “Oh please. Paglia is a neanderthal when it comes to promoting absolutist notions of gender, while Sommers doesn’t seem to think rape’s that big a deal.Neither one of them is a feminist.”

This point has always been the easiest one to demonstrate regarding feminism, because there is always a loyal feminist ready to pop up and prove it for you. Karl did the service this time. Thanks, buddy! We could try a few more: Cathy Young, Wendy MacElroy. Would you care to do the honors, Karl, or would you like to let someone else have a turn? :-)

Let’s go about this another way. Karl_the_Idiot, can you name ANY feminists in good standing who consistently stand up to misandrist rhetoric? Or don’t you believe in feminist misandrist rhetoric?

I have no idea what this is meant to mean. Is “behavior they exhibit” what someone does? Are you saying “women need to acknowledge that they..are responsible for what they do” or are you saying something, uh, totally nuts like “women need to be responsible for what they inspire people to do”?

If it’s #2, that’s just bizarre.

Oh please. Paglia is a neanderthal when it comes to promoting absolutist notions of gender, while Sommers doesn’t seem to think rape’s that big a deal.

Neither one of them is a feminist.

This case actually reminds me most of the practice of punishing women for “dishonoring” their families or somehow otherwise being or doing something men in their life don’t like by throwing acid on them, except this time it was in…

Looking the other way when terrible things happen is indeed a problem for humanity. We need only look at Rwanda to see the evidence of men and women turning their backs on other men and women being victimized–slaughtered in this case. However, I think that when it comes to sexual harassment and gender issues, men are less likely than women to police their co-workers of the same gender. I’ve heard women call each other out when a word or look with a male co-worker or client crosses the line. It doesn’t happen as often as it should, I’m sure, but I’ve only ever seen men call each other out while laughing and shaking their head or joining in. I’ll readily admit that my beliefs are not based on empirical data, but on my experiences in the real world, and rather than invalidating my opinions, I think that strengthens them.