Comments on: Relinquishing Control: Some Thoughts on Men, Women, and the Domestic Sphere

By: Caitriona

Caitriona — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:42:27 +0000

Countess, one of my boys tried that “housework is women’s work” once. He realized his mistake when he had to take on even more of the housework. ;-) I’ve got a few of my thoughts on the matter on my blog.

Gotta scoot.

By: The Countess

The Countess — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:44:23 +0000

I managed to get past the “housework is women’s work” meme by letting my inner slob out. I am not neat. The Count used to be almost downright anal about cleaning - until I moved in. He’s seriously slacked up due to my influence. Heh. The trash gets taken out every week, either by The Count or by me. I usually tie up the bag, and ask him to take it outside. I do manage to sweep the floor on occasion, but I don’t do it as much as I should.

I agree with Hugo that most housework is seen as women’s work. My mother lives several states away. If she were to come to visit me, I’d do exactly what Hugo’s ex did - clean the house like it’s never been cleaned before. I call my mother the “Lady MacBeth Of Housecleaning”. She was always cleaning the house. If I cleaned the house to the extent my mother did, I wouldn’t be able to write uninterrupted the way I do now. I think excessive cleaning to please other people keeps women from doing more important things.

I’m not sure how women view housecleaning now. I think some of the younger ones have let go of it in the sense that they may be negatively judged for it as if it’s their sole responsibility.

The big question is who cleans the cat litter? I bet more women clean it than men. ;)

By: The Galloping Beaver

The Galloping Beaver — Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:05:17 +0000

If Men Were Actually Doing The Housework….

It is also not difficult to tell that a significant amount of housework is not being done by men. How do I know? The tools.

By: Half Changed World

Half Changed World — Wed, 07 Dec 2005 23:24:45 +0000

Cleanliness is next to…

In a comment last week, Jen wrote: There are so many things you can do to fight the domestic glass ceiling beyond requiring all other women to share your life choices!… Like not judging your women friends when their houses

By: Can Dance

Can Dance — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:08:01 +0000

Yeah I know being a SAHM can get more stimulating. didn’t mean to insult what you are doing Cait. I have *thought* about hsing, but I seriously don’t know if I can handle it! right now reciting abc’s, and reading very basic books to her are about as exciting as it gets intellectually unless I start reading some books or start reading some very interesting blogs ;) I guess we’ll see where life leads. but I would like to do something else ultimately. somedays I don’t feel domestic in the least. I guess you could say that I don’t think God has called me to this life for the rest of my life, I view it as a season. but that is just me.
And thank you for your blistering commentary on my life Mr B, its been an interesting read. But I would still like to see you SAH for a few years with small children and maintain all the housework and see how “interesting” it is day in and day out. but that is what life is isn’t it? not always a bed of roses.

By: Caitriona

Caitriona — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:03:44 +0000

Heh. Mr. Bad, what are you going to be saying when we get the farm to the point that Chewy and I can *both* be SAHPs - at the same time? lol

I don’t know any SAHPs who don’t greatly appreciate their working-outside-the-home spouses, but then I don’t know anywhere near all SAHPs. I do, however, know a few WOHPs who very vocally don’t appreciate the work their SAH spouses do. I even know a few kids who, in the midst of being the biggest reason a SAHP was a SAHP, had no appreciation for that parent (but then again, few kids appreciate their parents until later years).

You’re right that life is full of sacrifices. But sometimes the things we do for the benefit of our families may seem to be sacrifices to those outside our family, but to us, they are simply the things we do because it is what is best for our particular situation.

By: Mr. Bad

Mr. Bad — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:31:36 +0000

mythago said: “The point you’re neatly dodging is that you portrayed this as a few years of hard work in return for a life of luxury. With two kids, it’s a minimum of seven years–and then you’re speculating on future work, not present work. In seven years, SAHP could be back in the paid workforce (and still running the household) while WOHP is in a cushy management job.”

Cute use of words myth, and a good job of putting yours in my mouth. I’m not “dodging” anything, nor did say that the post-toddler years were a “life of luxury” - that’s your hype, not mine. I correctly noted that as a child grows older they need less full-time attention, nothing more. And like you, I was speculating on the post-toddler years for the SAHM (actually, SAHP, but since so few are fathers I choose to go with the traditional). Yes, SAHM could be back in the workforce, but then again, she might not. And like so many other situationg for modern women in First World nation, it’s probably her choice to go back to work or not, conveniently faciliated by working Dad’s sacrifice. LMYC does a nice job of describing this, so I won’t reiterate. And Can Dance chooses to stay home - heck, she says so herself above. She also thinks that she will choose to go back to work once rugrat is old enough to go to school, etc., not because she and her family necessarily need to money but apparently in order to make her life less “boring” and more interesting. She talks about the luxury of not needing two people to ask for vacations - heck, my family almost never was able to take vacations because we didn’t have the money and my dad couldn’t take the time off work, so to me her life sounds quite cushy compared to what we had. But still, my mom didn’t complain (much), and after her initial participation in the feminist movement came to realize and specifically state what a bunch of spoiled whiners the subsequent generations of Betty Friedans, Gloria Steinems, et al. really were/are.

Can Dance, I’m glad to hear that you and your husband seem to have things worked out. I get very impatient with people (women mostly) who complain about how hard housework, etc., is compared to the work outside the home their husbands do so that they can have a parent at hom. Life is full of sacrifices, and IMO the sacrifices that working men make so that their families can enjoy a rich home life is very much underappreciated.

By: Caitriona

Caitriona — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:30:01 +0000

I have a brain and I would like to use it in some compacity beyong Elmo’s world.

Oh, believe me! There’s MUCH more than Elmo’s world for a SAHM.

I didn’t become a SAH/homeschooling mom until my kids were middle-school age. We wish we’d done it sooner. Many people I know feel that teens need an available parent even more than toddlers do. The difficulties and challenges that teens can get involved in are on SUCH a different level than those a toddler gets into.

There’ll be plenty of time for me to work full-time outside the home again after our 15yo is grown. That is, of course, if the farm hasn’t grown to a point by then that my husband and I *both* need to be home running it.

By: Can Dance

Can Dance — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:08:41 +0000

My dh doesn’t pull in a 6 figure income. I SAH because we value raising our kids ourselves. do I like it every day? no. definitely not. it does get quite boring. I do feel bad the days when he has to get up at a digusting hour to go to work though. he most definitely gets sleep in days when I do not. my “alarm” goes off every day at exactly the same time, whether I want it to or not.
I also have every intention of going back to work as soon as my kids are school age, if not before. I am pregnant again and spaced them close together for the real chaos of have 2 under 2. but really its so that I can begin pursuing things outside the home. I have no intention of being a SAHW for the rest of my life. I have a brain and I would like to use it in some compacity beyong Elmo’s world. We certainly never accuse each other of having worked less hard. Both of our jobs have stress. travel is stressful and tiring, even when you are flying the plane and getting paid for it. going from one time zone to the next constantly is very wearing on a body. having a child wake up in the middle of the night repeatedly is also very tiring. niether are cake walks, at least in the sleep department. and dh’s job does get monotonous, just like every other job.
But there are lots of advantages right now for us not having to plan around 2 jobs. we don’t have to ask for 2 vacations, we don’t have to figure out who is picking up from daycare, etc. All I need is a couple hours a day when he is home to watch our dd and let me hang out on the computer, like he is doing now :) then I can handle whatever comes my way from an 18 month old in terms of melt downs and demands.

By: mythago

mythago — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 01:24:57 +0000

LMYC, I think you’re kinda missing the point. Of course running a household, rearing children AND holding down a paid job is a hell of a lot harder than doing the first two without the last. That doesn’t mean being a SAHP is a creampuff job or that, because it’s harder to do if you hold down a job, it’s easy if you don’t.

And of course it is quite true that in the debate about the highly artificial ‘mommy wars,’ the fact that somebody else is paying the bills is obscured when we’re talking about SAHPs. Unless, of course, we’re talking about parents who receive government assistance, and then it’s all about how they’re lazy and bad parents if they DON’T work outside the home.

Mr. Bad, cute use of numbers, but you’re not really saying that you’re relying on the opinions of about 70% of a sample size of 20,000. You’re going by the anecdotes of co-workers and your personal experience. That’s okay, but it’s anecdotal evidence. The size of the workforce at your university doesn’t change that. (And of course, my own work situation is also anecdotal.)

The SAHM’s job gets much easier after seven years while the spouse’s get harder

The point you’re neatly dodging is that you portrayed this as a few years of hard work in return for a life of luxury. With two kids, it’s a minimum of seven years–and then you’re speculating on future work, not present work. In seven years, SAHP could be back in the paid workforce (and still running the household) while WOHP is in a cushy management job.

As for your “12 hour days,” hmmm. You work all those 12 hours?

Exactly. I don’t come home from the office moaning to my spouse about how hard *I* work and how hard *I* have it compared to him. I can go get a cup of coffee when I want. None of my co-workers hit their brother and come crying to me when I’m in the bathroom. I don’t have to clean up anybody else’s messes, and the laundry and dinner get done without my intervention. (Though, since you asked, it actually isn’t unusual for me to put in twelve hours of work time in a day.)