Comments on: A rambling musing on “five pillars” of a feminist theology of sex http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/ Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:16:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: *Christopher http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14939 *Christopher Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:52:57 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14939 Hugo, it is indeed published, and I've offered some further thoughts on your post. Hugo, it is indeed published, and I’ve offered some further thoughts on your post.

]]> By: Hugo http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14938 Hugo Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:37:46 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14938 Thanks for the encouragement, Christopher -- is Brooten's work published? (I suppose I could just surf over to Amazon and find out...) Thanks for the encouragement, Christopher — is Brooten’s work published? (I suppose I could just surf over to Amazon and find out…)

]]> By: *Christopher http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14937 *Christopher Wed, 01 Feb 2006 00:58:24 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14937 Hugo, I had the pleasure to meet with one of the founders of this statement, Bernadette Brooten, in an excellent examination of her work on lesbian love in the ancient world. I've mulled this statement over for a long time and I still find it relevant for thinking about sex in Christian terms that redeems pleasure as a good itself (which Aquinas comes close to as well btw). Thanks for highlighting this. Please do write on each of these points. I look forward to conversation. Hugo,

I had the pleasure to meet with one of the founders of this statement, Bernadette Brooten, in an excellent examination of her work on lesbian love in the ancient world. I’ve mulled this statement over for a long time and I still find it relevant for thinking about sex in Christian terms that redeems pleasure as a good itself (which Aquinas comes close to as well btw). Thanks for highlighting this. Please do write on each of these points. I look forward to conversation.

]]> By: evil_fizz http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14936 evil_fizz Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:49:34 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14936 Q Grrl: Can you explain what you mean when you say "Christianity and Judaism are EXPLICITLY founded on rape myths"? I'm also missing the notion of compulsory heterosexuality. Can you explain a little further what you mean in this context? Q Grrl: Can you explain what you mean when you say “Christianity and Judaism are EXPLICITLY founded on rape myths”?

I’m also missing the notion of compulsory heterosexuality. Can you explain a little further what you mean in this context?

]]> By: The Happy Feminist http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14935 The Happy Feminist Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:18:39 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14935 To me these five pillars make a lot of sense from a feminist perspective. They seem to take into account all the issues that made women second class citizens in the realm of sex. Freedom, consent and mutuality seem to address the issue of rape. Freedom and pleasure seem to take into account the notion of different sexual orientations. Obviously, these pillars are all big ideas that can use some fleshing out, and maybe that's what Q grrrrrl is getting at. To me these five pillars make a lot of sense from a feminist perspective. They seem to take into account all the issues that made women second class citizens in the realm of sex. Freedom, consent and mutuality seem to address the issue of rape. Freedom and pleasure seem to take into account the notion of different sexual orientations.

Obviously, these pillars are all big ideas that can use some fleshing out, and maybe that’s what Q grrrrrl is getting at.

]]> By: bmmg39 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14934 bmmg39 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:46:42 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14934 I forgot to laud SmartBlkWoman for her great post: "The only thing that I disagree with it is that our sexuality and the pleasure of it should not be thought of without also thinking of procreation and taking it into accord." That's the Catholic belief of sex: that the recreative and procreative go hand in hand, and it's cheapened if either one is stifled. But you put it better than I. "Plastic surgeons always say that you have to give function just as much consideration as form. Translation: Its nice that you want your body to look a certain way but don't forget about what your body is designed to do." This also reminds me of those who obsess over women's breasts -- only to be repelled when women actually use them for the thing they were designed for: nursing babies. "How are we supposed to fantasize about your breasts when you're using them for THAT?" bg Men's Rights = Women's Rights = Human Rights I forgot to laud SmartBlkWoman for her great post:

“The only thing that I disagree with it is that our sexuality and the pleasure of it should not be thought of without also thinking of procreation and taking it into accord.”

That’s the Catholic belief of sex: that the recreative and procreative go hand in hand, and it’s cheapened if either one is stifled. But you put it better than I.

“Plastic surgeons always say that you have to give function just as much consideration as form. Translation: Its nice that you want your body to look a certain way but don’t forget about what your body is designed to do.”

This also reminds me of those who obsess over women’s breasts — only to be repelled when women actually use them for the thing they were designed for: nursing babies. “How are we supposed to fantasize about your breasts when you’re using them for THAT?”

bg
Men’s Rights = Women’s Rights = Human Rights

]]> By: bmmg39 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14933 bmmg39 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:38:19 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14933 "Christianity and Judaism are EXPLICITLY founded on rape myths." I'm curious to know what this means. "Love is an unnecessary part of sexuality..." I prefer to think of it as the other way around (reiterating my negative views of the idea that love is "consummated" by sex), but okay... boy genteel “Christianity and Judaism are EXPLICITLY founded on rape myths.”

I’m curious to know what this means.

“Love is an unnecessary part of sexuality…”

I prefer to think of it as the other way around (reiterating my negative views of the idea that love is “consummated” by sex), but okay…

boy genteel

]]> By: mythago http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14932 mythago Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:04:08 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14932 Antigone, I was referring to your last comment about mutual respect and love. <i>Judeo-Christian</i> Can't we just say "Christian" when we mean "Christian" instead of pretending to be all thoughtful and inclusive? Antigone, I was referring to your last comment about mutual respect and love.

Judeo-Christian

Can’t we just say “Christian” when we mean “Christian” instead of pretending to be all thoughtful and inclusive?

]]> By: Q Grrl http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14931 Q Grrl Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:26:58 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14931 Oh, yeah. I hope you're not reading me as trying to be antagonistic. I was in most ways just curious about why "feminist" was being tagged onto this. I don't see anything wrong with the pillars. I do see that they are stemming from a patriarchal belief system and from patriarchal discourse (compulsory heterosexuality). FWIW, I don't see compulsory heterosexuality as the absense of lesbian sexuality or lesbian identity. I do however, see it as a constellation of beliefs and discourses, such as the five pillars you mention. But that's shades of grey that I cannot even address today... much less present in a coherent nutshell. Oh, yeah. I hope you’re not reading me as trying to be antagonistic. I was in most ways just curious about why “feminist” was being tagged onto this. I don’t see anything wrong with the pillars. I do see that they are stemming from a patriarchal belief system and from patriarchal discourse (compulsory heterosexuality).

FWIW, I don’t see compulsory heterosexuality as the absense of lesbian sexuality or lesbian identity. I do however, see it as a constellation of beliefs and discourses, such as the five pillars you mention. But that’s shades of grey that I cannot even address today… much less present in a coherent nutshell.

]]> By: Hugo http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14930 Hugo Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:08:58 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/01/30/a-rambling-musing-on-five-pillars-of-a-feminist-theology-of-sex/#comment-14930 Well, on the FSEP splash page it lists the executive director as a Bernadette Brooten. "Funded" is not the same as "run". Lots of progressive organizations get Ford Foundation money, much to the chagrin of some members of the Ford family! And I think the "five pillars" is congruent with the best traditions of feminism -- unless your view of feminism cannot see the Judeo-Christian tradition as compatible with feminism! As for compulsory heterosexuality, I see no condemnation of alternate sexual lifestyles here. An absence of a discussion of lesbian identity is not the same as endorsing compulsory heterosexuality. I feel we may have arrived at a lovely epistemic gulf, Q Grrl, and can respectfully disagree -- even in feminist solidarity! Well, on the FSEP splash page it lists the executive director as a Bernadette Brooten. “Funded” is not the same as “run”. Lots of progressive organizations get Ford Foundation money, much to the chagrin of some members of the Ford family!

And I think the “five pillars” is congruent with the best traditions of feminism — unless your view of feminism cannot see the Judeo-Christian tradition as compatible with feminism! As for compulsory heterosexuality, I see no condemnation of alternate sexual lifestyles here. An absence of a discussion of lesbian identity is not the same as endorsing compulsory heterosexuality.

I feel we may have arrived at a lovely epistemic gulf, Q Grrl, and can respectfully disagree — even in feminist solidarity!

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