Comments on: “Ranking the girls”: a note on teaching and an ugly side of homosociality http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/ Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:29:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-147229 Hugo Schwyzer Tue, 13 Nov 2007 04:07:35 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-147229 Not quite, Victoria -- the immorality lies in the vast power differential, and the decision by those in a place of authority to sexualize those beneath them. Case law on sexual harassment says that it's much harder for an employee to harass a boss or a student a teacher than vice versa. I hope, btw, that you don't make academic decisions about what to major in and study based solely or even primarily on the attractiveness of the faculty. Not quite, Victoria — the immorality lies in the vast power differential, and the decision by those in a place of authority to sexualize those beneath them. Case law on sexual harassment says that it’s much harder for an employee to harass a boss or a student a teacher than vice versa.

I hope, btw, that you don’t make academic decisions about what to major in and study based solely or even primarily on the attractiveness of the faculty.

]]> By: Victoria http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-147216 Victoria Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:49:36 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-147216 As a female college student, I rank my professors on the basis of attractiveness. I know that most of my friends do the same thing. I suppose that would be sexist also . . . As a female college student, I rank my professors on the basis of attractiveness.

I know that most of my friends do the same thing.

I suppose that would be sexist also . . .

]]> By: Antigone http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24955 Antigone Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:50:32 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24955 I seriously, seriously doubt that this "scale" is not interferring with his students' grades, just like I bet that if more girls in the class knew about it, they would a)immediately transfer out, or b) dress better in hopes of getting a higher scale score (and therefore getting a better grade). "Brownie points" aren't supposed to effect grades either, but I can bet you they do (just out of curosity, anyone know where that phrase came from?) I seriously, seriously doubt that this “scale” is not interferring with his students’ grades, just like I bet that if more girls in the class knew about it, they would a)immediately transfer out, or b) dress better in hopes of getting a higher scale score (and therefore getting a better grade).

“Brownie points” aren’t supposed to effect grades either, but I can bet you they do (just out of curosity, anyone know where that phrase came from?)

]]> By: AJ http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24954 AJ Fri, 11 Aug 2006 08:59:34 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24954 <i>This makes no sense. Why have half of the species running around with blue balls all the time?</i> So that they are ready at a moment's notice should the opportunity arise of course. This makes no sense. Why have half of the species running around with blue balls all the time?

So that they are ready at a moment’s notice should the opportunity arise of course.

]]> By: mythago http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24953 mythago Fri, 11 Aug 2006 03:34:09 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24953 <i>Since sperm are cheap and eggs are expensive, men are programmed to have excess libido.</i> This makes no sense. Why have half of the species running around with blue balls all the time? Since sperm are cheap and eggs are expensive, men are programmed to have excess libido.

This makes no sense. Why have half of the species running around with blue balls all the time?

]]> By: c-monkey http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24952 c-monkey Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:35:11 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24952 The punchline is sooooooo buried <i><blockquote>Maybe what he's doing is harmless.</i></blockquote> Of course what he's doing is harmless. Maybe what he's doing is <i>gross</i>. Maybe what he's doing is <i>immature</i>. Maybe what he's doing is even <i>immoral</i>. But until he either starts screwing with a girl's grade due to her "hotness" or trying to coerce/force her into sex, the actual act of ranking girls' looks is harmless. It maybe distasteful, stupid, childish, etc. but it just doesn't harm anyone until it's combined with some other <i>action</i>. Harmless fantasy. And I do think that "Max" is right. I'd wager a majority of men do it. Since sperm are cheap and eggs are expensive, men are programmed to have excess libido. For non-single men: Just keep it in your pants and don't let it cloud your judgment, and you gonna be a'ight. The punchline is sooooooo buried


Maybe what he’s doing is harmless.

Of course what he’s doing is harmless. Maybe what he’s doing is gross. Maybe what he’s doing is immature. Maybe what he’s doing is even immoral.

But until he either starts screwing with a girl’s grade due to her “hotness” or trying to coerce/force her into sex, the actual act of ranking girls’ looks is harmless. It maybe distasteful, stupid, childish, etc. but it just doesn’t harm anyone until it’s combined with some other action. Harmless fantasy.

And I do think that “Max” is right. I’d wager a majority of men do it. Since sperm are cheap and eggs are expensive, men are programmed to have excess libido. For non-single men: Just keep it in your pants and don’t let it cloud your judgment, and you gonna be a’ight.

]]> By: Lurker http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24951 Lurker Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:27:26 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24951 OK liars is a bit harsh. Sorry. OK liars is a bit harsh. Sorry.

]]> By: Hugo http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24950 Hugo Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:33:27 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24950 I'm not at all sure I'm going to get around to passing this on, Lurker. And please, calling other posters "liars" is unacceptable. You may wish to believe that this is universal heterosexual male behavior, but I assure you it is not. Noticing attractive people is something we all do -- developing a ranking system is something utterly different. I’m not at all sure I’m going to get around to passing this on, Lurker. And please, calling other posters “liars” is unacceptable. You may wish to believe that this is universal heterosexual male behavior, but I assure you it is not. Noticing attractive people is something we all do — developing a ranking system is something utterly different.

]]> By: Lurker http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24949 Lurker Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:53:15 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24949 An amusing story indeed. Of course nearly all men do this in some way, including some of the liars commenting here. Sorry ladies but its true. However Max's system is far too complicated. These days I opt for a simple four stage system. You might want to pass this onto max, would save him a lot of work 3 points - the full power Marilyn Monroe type woman, you dont have to think about how to rate them, you just <i>know</i>. 2 points - the more regular woman, you dont have to think too hard about rating them but you find yourself weighing up their attributes first. 1 point - you would, if nothing better was on offer. 0 points - nothing doing. This of course is all filtered through superficial looks. I capriciously reserve the right to alter scores based on personality and familiarity. Someone could traverse from 0 to 3 as I got to know them. An amusing story indeed. Of course nearly all men do this in some way, including some of the liars commenting here. Sorry ladies but its true.

However Max’s system is far too complicated. These days I opt for a simple four stage system. You might want to pass this onto max, would save him a lot of work

3 points - the full power Marilyn Monroe type woman, you dont have to think about how to rate them, you just know.

2 points - the more regular woman, you dont have to think too hard about rating them but you find yourself weighing up their attributes first.

1 point - you would, if nothing better was on offer.

0 points - nothing doing.

This of course is all filtered through superficial looks. I capriciously reserve the right to alter scores based on personality and familiarity. Someone could traverse from 0 to 3 as I got to know them.

]]> By: Lynn Gazis-Sax http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24948 Lynn Gazis-Sax Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:10:43 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/08/03/ranking-the-girls-a-note-on-teaching-and-an-ugly-side-of-homosociality/#comment-24948 I guess I'm an idiot, then :-). Seriously, I don't think many people, male or female, assign everyone of their preferred sex that they meet in their work environment an ordinal rank for sexual desirability, much less put it in writing. And, "in their work environment" is a key point here; if you abstract away from that, you've lost <em>the whole reason</em> Max is wrong. Men and women meeting each other in bars and clubs can feel free to assign each other any numbers they darn well please, and even make dorky charts of those numbers, if they want to waste their time on such charts. I guess I’m an idiot, then :-). Seriously, I don’t think many people, male or female, assign everyone of their preferred sex that they meet in their work environment an ordinal rank for sexual desirability, much less put it in writing.

And, “in their work environment” is a key point here; if you abstract away from that, you’ve lost the whole reason Max is wrong. Men and women meeting each other in bars and clubs can feel free to assign each other any numbers they darn well please, and even make dorky charts of those numbers, if they want to waste their time on such charts.

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