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	<title>Comments on: Place cards and dinner parties</title>
	<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25944</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 07:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25944</guid>
		<description>Fascinating site and well worth the visit. I will be backd
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating site and well worth the visit. I will be backd</p>
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		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25943</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 15:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25943</guid>
		<description>Getting in on this rather late, but I think it's an important topic.

I think people are conflating a wide range of get-togethers: casual dinners with a couple of friends, mega-weddings, small parties, etc.  It can be a paint to be “forced to talk to strangers,” especially when you have nothing in common, but, in my experience, with open seating, I often do get stuck with people way outside my demographic, and hear the laughter of a group of the “cool kids” a couple of tables over.  But I don’t think Hugo’s event was a multi-table gathering.

I sympathize with Jodie’s comment a little also…in my case it would be things like being an immature, young-looking 23 year old guy who really wanted to sit with the college students, but being put with “the real adults” (who were usually the parents of such students) and the like.  But there are problems with self-selection.

For all of you who have screamed about "extrovert privilege" and "class privilege," did you ever think of "social circle privilege" or “couplehood privilege?”  You talk about wanting to be with YOUR PARTNER and YOUR FRIENDS, blah blah blah.  As a singleton who moved 900 miles away immediately after graduating from college, I think that having a “partner” is a privilege that you should be able to relinquish for a couple of hours here and there.  And I think that having a clique of cool friends from high school and college days that you stay in touch with and live near is also privilege.  I’ve had the misfortune of often being in work, church, or other groups where the participants were not really the kind of people I found interesting.  Is it right for you to sit in your clique even at a party and kill my only chance to become part of your circle?  And is it right for you to form a wall around your single friends, some of whom might be potential dating partners for me?

Lastly, while I don’t know about enforced breaking up of couples, it is rude the way that some people see group activities as a chance to conduct their personal relationship.  Really screws up the dynamic when not everyone is part of a couple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting in on this rather late, but I think it&#8217;s an important topic.</p>
<p>I think people are conflating a wide range of get-togethers: casual dinners with a couple of friends, mega-weddings, small parties, etc.  It can be a paint to be “forced to talk to strangers,” especially when you have nothing in common, but, in my experience, with open seating, I often do get stuck with people way outside my demographic, and hear the laughter of a group of the “cool kids” a couple of tables over.  But I don’t think Hugo’s event was a multi-table gathering.</p>
<p>I sympathize with Jodie’s comment a little also…in my case it would be things like being an immature, young-looking 23 year old guy who really wanted to sit with the college students, but being put with “the real adults” (who were usually the parents of such students) and the like.  But there are problems with self-selection.</p>
<p>For all of you who have screamed about &#8220;extrovert privilege&#8221; and &#8220;class privilege,&#8221; did you ever think of &#8220;social circle privilege&#8221; or “couplehood privilege?”  You talk about wanting to be with YOUR PARTNER and YOUR FRIENDS, blah blah blah.  As a singleton who moved 900 miles away immediately after graduating from college, I think that having a “partner” is a privilege that you should be able to relinquish for a couple of hours here and there.  And I think that having a clique of cool friends from high school and college days that you stay in touch with and live near is also privilege.  I’ve had the misfortune of often being in work, church, or other groups where the participants were not really the kind of people I found interesting.  Is it right for you to sit in your clique even at a party and kill my only chance to become part of your circle?  And is it right for you to form a wall around your single friends, some of whom might be potential dating partners for me?</p>
<p>Lastly, while I don’t know about enforced breaking up of couples, it is rude the way that some people see group activities as a chance to conduct their personal relationship.  Really screws up the dynamic when not everyone is part of a couple.</p>
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		<title>By: Jodie</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25942</link>
		<dc:creator>Jodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25942</guid>
		<description>I never liked arranged seating at parties; for whatever reason (probably because I can be counted on to be polite and never complain), I always have to sit with the long-winded Uncle Alberts of the world, and never the cool kids.

Give me any other kind of party, but not the kind with arranged seating. And I don't even HAVE an SO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never liked arranged seating at parties; for whatever reason (probably because I can be counted on to be polite and never complain), I always have to sit with the long-winded Uncle Alberts of the world, and never the cool kids.</p>
<p>Give me any other kind of party, but not the kind with arranged seating. And I don&#8217;t even HAVE an SO.</p>
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		<title>By: Malachi</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25941</link>
		<dc:creator>Malachi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25941</guid>
		<description>This sort of elaborate planning may be all well and good, especially in a veyr formal dinner party situation where people are stuck with their seating.  But I cant see how having a blanket rule helps; it seems unrealistically one-size-fits-all.  And I, for one, would prefer, although not demand, to be seated at the same table as my SO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sort of elaborate planning may be all well and good, especially in a veyr formal dinner party situation where people are stuck with their seating.  But I cant see how having a blanket rule helps; it seems unrealistically one-size-fits-all.  And I, for one, would prefer, although not demand, to be seated at the same table as my SO.</p>
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		<title>By: Vacula</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25940</link>
		<dc:creator>Vacula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25940</guid>
		<description>At a wedding or other major social event with a heterogenous crowd a host's responsibilities are even more important on the planning side, though of course they can't mingle during the event as much as they would at a smaller party. I completely agree with Sydney about the importance of "making use" of those wonderful friends who can easily draw new people into a conversation and make them feel at ease. 

Arbitrary rules about separations seem kind of silly if the point is to make sure everyone has a good time. That may work wonderfully for some people and not at all for others. If you know someone well enough to invite them to a celebration hopefully you know them well enough to know what works to keep them at ease and entertained.

I wouldn't say that trying to avoid making someone feel awkward is a guest's responsibility. I'd say that's a constant responsibility in &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; social occaision for &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; thoughtful person. Sometimes that means making small talk, sometimes that means &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; making small talk "at" them but just giving them the opportunity to join a conversation if they like - body language is key there, of course. I'm personally not terribly adept at small talk, but I try to be conscious of people sitting by themselves or looking like they'd like to participate in a conversation. 

When I was very little, maybe four or five years old, every time my mom dropped me off at sunday school or some other group of kids she would tell me to try to find someone who felt lonely and be their friend that day. I don't remember how well it worked, but I still think it's good advice. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At a wedding or other major social event with a heterogenous crowd a host&#8217;s responsibilities are even more important on the planning side, though of course they can&#8217;t mingle during the event as much as they would at a smaller party. I completely agree with Sydney about the importance of &#8220;making use&#8221; of those wonderful friends who can easily draw new people into a conversation and make them feel at ease. </p>
<p>Arbitrary rules about separations seem kind of silly if the point is to make sure everyone has a good time. That may work wonderfully for some people and not at all for others. If you know someone well enough to invite them to a celebration hopefully you know them well enough to know what works to keep them at ease and entertained.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say that trying to avoid making someone feel awkward is a guest&#8217;s responsibility. I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s a constant responsibility in <i>any</i> social occaision for <i>any</i> thoughtful person. Sometimes that means making small talk, sometimes that means <i>not</i> making small talk &#8220;at&#8221; them but just giving them the opportunity to join a conversation if they like - body language is key there, of course. I&#8217;m personally not terribly adept at small talk, but I try to be conscious of people sitting by themselves or looking like they&#8217;d like to participate in a conversation. </p>
<p>When I was very little, maybe four or five years old, every time my mom dropped me off at sunday school or some other group of kids she would tell me to try to find someone who felt lonely and be their friend that day. I don&#8217;t remember how well it worked, but I still think it&#8217;s good advice. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Sydney</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25939</link>
		<dc:creator>Sydney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25939</guid>
		<description>Glitch, there seems to be a fundamental difference between our understanding of the role of a guest. As a guest, I do not feel the party exists for the primary purpose of providing me fun. Sure, I want to have fun and I hope to have fun (and I usually do), but the party, as far as I'm concerned, is a group effort with the end goal of ensuring *everyone* enjoys themselves. As a guest (and as a host), I feel I can take steps to both have fun and contribute to other people's enjoyment of the party, too. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.

Like you, I would find it nice if someone approached me at a party and it turned out we got along well. But I also recognize it's not just everyone else's role to approach me; I have to do the approaching sometimes, too. Again, it's a group effort.

And I agree -- like you, I would not feel comfortable if a host explicitly instructed me to talk to people. But I'll wager most hosts are not so heavy handed in their approach, so this is a non-issue in my book.

Phil, thank you for the generous comment!

Vacula, your guest list advice is wise and should be heeded. Unfortunately, certain social functions  (e.g. weddings, anniversary parties, bridal showers) often can involve the gathering of different people from different parts of one's life who may not mesh quite well socially, politically, culturally, or language-wise, and that's when juggling the guest list and seating arrangements becomes quite a challenge! As a host, I am forever thankful for friends/family who make it a point to approach others and make others feel welcome and a part of the party. When hosting a wedding with several hundred people, I as the bride can only do so much to ensure everyone is having a good time, so these wonderful people are a god send.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glitch, there seems to be a fundamental difference between our understanding of the role of a guest. As a guest, I do not feel the party exists for the primary purpose of providing me fun. Sure, I want to have fun and I hope to have fun (and I usually do), but the party, as far as I&#8217;m concerned, is a group effort with the end goal of ensuring *everyone* enjoys themselves. As a guest (and as a host), I feel I can take steps to both have fun and contribute to other people&#8217;s enjoyment of the party, too. It doesn&#8217;t have to be an either/or situation.</p>
<p>Like you, I would find it nice if someone approached me at a party and it turned out we got along well. But I also recognize it&#8217;s not just everyone else&#8217;s role to approach me; I have to do the approaching sometimes, too. Again, it&#8217;s a group effort.</p>
<p>And I agree &#8212; like you, I would not feel comfortable if a host explicitly instructed me to talk to people. But I&#8217;ll wager most hosts are not so heavy handed in their approach, so this is a non-issue in my book.</p>
<p>Phil, thank you for the generous comment!</p>
<p>Vacula, your guest list advice is wise and should be heeded. Unfortunately, certain social functions  (e.g. weddings, anniversary parties, bridal showers) often can involve the gathering of different people from different parts of one&#8217;s life who may not mesh quite well socially, politically, culturally, or language-wise, and that&#8217;s when juggling the guest list and seating arrangements becomes quite a challenge! As a host, I am forever thankful for friends/family who make it a point to approach others and make others feel welcome and a part of the party. When hosting a wedding with several hundred people, I as the bride can only do so much to ensure everyone is having a good time, so these wonderful people are a god send.</p>
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		<title>By: Vacula</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25938</link>
		<dc:creator>Vacula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25938</guid>
		<description>It seems to me a good portion of the potential discomfortable situations mentioned here can be solved by the host being careful as they draw up a guest list. I have friends whose company I enjoy that I obviously wouldn't invite to certain gatherings because their history with other friends would make them feel awkward. For the same reasons, I would consider &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; inviting shy friends to a group of strangers a favor to them, and make time to see them privately or in a smaller group instead. 

If the host wants to have certain people meet each other for the first time, it's their responsibility to make introductions in a manner that makes it easy for those people to talk to each other. At my house, early arrivals help with setting up the dinner and that's a pretty effective ice-breaker, but we stick to pretty informal parties. Giving quiet people something to do or starting a conversation about a completely neutral subject are parts of the host's responsibility to make sure their guests are comfortable.

I have some very introverted friends who don't enjoy talking but do enjoy listening to other people talk. If I were to arrange a seating list (my home is too small for very large parties at the moment), I would be careful to place them near someone they knew and hopefully also near some people that are entertaining talkers so they wouldn't be subjected to awkward silences. Some of my more extroverted friends enjoy talking but aren't always good at drawing people out - pairing them with people who are happy to be entertained by conversations without participating in them works well for both people.

I've been offended by guests who imposed awkward political conversations on others or behaved in other rude ways to my other guests. But I don't consider talking to people they know or simply not talking rude behavior. I should know my guests well enough to give them the option of talking to new people in a comfortable setting if they feel like it, but I don't think they have some general obligation to specifically seek out the people they don't know. If anyone feels awkward and alienated, I would consider that my fault as the host.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me a good portion of the potential discomfortable situations mentioned here can be solved by the host being careful as they draw up a guest list. I have friends whose company I enjoy that I obviously wouldn&#8217;t invite to certain gatherings because their history with other friends would make them feel awkward. For the same reasons, I would consider <i>not</i> inviting shy friends to a group of strangers a favor to them, and make time to see them privately or in a smaller group instead. </p>
<p>If the host wants to have certain people meet each other for the first time, it&#8217;s their responsibility to make introductions in a manner that makes it easy for those people to talk to each other. At my house, early arrivals help with setting up the dinner and that&#8217;s a pretty effective ice-breaker, but we stick to pretty informal parties. Giving quiet people something to do or starting a conversation about a completely neutral subject are parts of the host&#8217;s responsibility to make sure their guests are comfortable.</p>
<p>I have some very introverted friends who don&#8217;t enjoy talking but do enjoy listening to other people talk. If I were to arrange a seating list (my home is too small for very large parties at the moment), I would be careful to place them near someone they knew and hopefully also near some people that are entertaining talkers so they wouldn&#8217;t be subjected to awkward silences. Some of my more extroverted friends enjoy talking but aren&#8217;t always good at drawing people out - pairing them with people who are happy to be entertained by conversations without participating in them works well for both people.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been offended by guests who imposed awkward political conversations on others or behaved in other rude ways to my other guests. But I don&#8217;t consider talking to people they know or simply not talking rude behavior. I should know my guests well enough to give them the option of talking to new people in a comfortable setting if they feel like it, but I don&#8217;t think they have some general obligation to specifically seek out the people they don&#8217;t know. If anyone feels awkward and alienated, I would consider that my fault as the host.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Hoover-Chicago</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25937</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Hoover-Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25937</guid>
		<description>The smartest thing said yet:


If you feel parties should be arranged differently, by all means hold your own. But please don't criticize other people for the way they do it, especially when they've been kind enough to invite you in the first place

Thanks Sydney.  You are ALWAYS invited to any function that I am hosting...ALWAYS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The smartest thing said yet:</p>
<p>If you feel parties should be arranged differently, by all means hold your own. But please don&#8217;t criticize other people for the way they do it, especially when they&#8217;ve been kind enough to invite you in the first place</p>
<p>Thanks Sydney.  You are ALWAYS invited to any function that I am hosting&#8230;ALWAYS.</p>
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		<title>By: Glitch</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25936</link>
		<dc:creator>Glitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25936</guid>
		<description>Sydney:

I think Jeff already stated it pretty well: &lt;i&gt;I think one of the problems here is that different people have different ideas of what the "point" of a party is. For some people, it's to mingle and meet new people; for some, it's to spend time with specific people; for others, it's simply to have as good a time as possible. What appears to be happening here is that the host is taking it upon himself or herself to decide what the "point" of their function should be for the other people attending, and there's a culture clash when the guests don't agree.&lt;/i&gt;

I'm sorry but I see no obligation whatsoever to chat with strangers at any function.  If I'm going to a party I intend to have fun.  Making the occasional pointless small talk with strangers, punctuated by long periods of uncomfortable silence and the frequest refills of my drink are not fun.  I don't find it fun, other people don't find it fun to be around me when I'm feeling out of place.  Fun for me is chatting and drinking with one or two people I know well for a few hours before I feel overwhelmed and have to leave.  Fun could be someone new coming to me and finding out we get along well.  I'm not going to interject myself into other people's conversations, making them uncomfortable in the process, just to make the host feel better about themselves.  If someone wants to meet me, they can come to me and see if we mesh.  I've never had a party host tell me I've had an obligation to talk to strange people.  If one did, I'd leave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sydney:</p>
<p>I think Jeff already stated it pretty well: <i>I think one of the problems here is that different people have different ideas of what the &#8220;point&#8221; of a party is. For some people, it&#8217;s to mingle and meet new people; for some, it&#8217;s to spend time with specific people; for others, it&#8217;s simply to have as good a time as possible. What appears to be happening here is that the host is taking it upon himself or herself to decide what the &#8220;point&#8221; of their function should be for the other people attending, and there&#8217;s a culture clash when the guests don&#8217;t agree.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry but I see no obligation whatsoever to chat with strangers at any function.  If I&#8217;m going to a party I intend to have fun.  Making the occasional pointless small talk with strangers, punctuated by long periods of uncomfortable silence and the frequest refills of my drink are not fun.  I don&#8217;t find it fun, other people don&#8217;t find it fun to be around me when I&#8217;m feeling out of place.  Fun for me is chatting and drinking with one or two people I know well for a few hours before I feel overwhelmed and have to leave.  Fun could be someone new coming to me and finding out we get along well.  I&#8217;m not going to interject myself into other people&#8217;s conversations, making them uncomfortable in the process, just to make the host feel better about themselves.  If someone wants to meet me, they can come to me and see if we mesh.  I&#8217;ve never had a party host tell me I&#8217;ve had an obligation to talk to strange people.  If one did, I&#8217;d leave.</p>
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		<title>By: Sydney</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25935</link>
		<dc:creator>Sydney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2006/09/19/place-cards-and-dinner-parties/#comment-25935</guid>
		<description>Arwen, I appreciate your comments and hosting insight. I, too, enjoy hosting parties.

As a host, I am not a fan of forcing couples to split up and sit at different tables. I usually seat them several people away from each other at the same table so they can chat with other people, but also have their partner nearby. I should add not everyone arrives as a couple.  I've never heard of compulsory separation of couples, but I would be fine attending a party where I was seated far away from my significant other.

A related rule I *have* heard of -- that it's considered rude to be joined at the hip to your significant other for the entire party and interact primarily with him/her (at both sit-down parties and non-sit down parties).

I understand Hugo is opening up a conversation about his hosting techniques, and I am glad learn about other people's hosting styles. However, I remain surprised that certain points are even up for debate. For example, I'm baffled by complaints from people who resent that they're expected to socialize with strangers when attending parties. When did socializing with strangers at parties become optional? This concept of social obligation seems a given when one has accepted a social invitation. I'm also baffled by assertions of socio-economic privilege and extroverted privilege; they hold no water for me.

I am an introvert. If I agree to attend as a guest, I'm to be sociable and friendly and do my best to go along with my host's arrangements. Introversion is not an ample enough reason for neglecting one's social obligations.

Parties are a group effort. They are about making others feel comfortable, and both host and guests must do their part to make this happen. And in the event a host has not been successful making his/her guests feel comfortable, a guest still has a social obligation to be friendly, inclusive, and respectful of the host's wishes (just as a host is obligated to remain gracious even if a guest has not been the best guest). We cannot control whether others fulfill their responsibilities, but we certainly can do our best to fulfill our own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arwen, I appreciate your comments and hosting insight. I, too, enjoy hosting parties.</p>
<p>As a host, I am not a fan of forcing couples to split up and sit at different tables. I usually seat them several people away from each other at the same table so they can chat with other people, but also have their partner nearby. I should add not everyone arrives as a couple.  I&#8217;ve never heard of compulsory separation of couples, but I would be fine attending a party where I was seated far away from my significant other.</p>
<p>A related rule I *have* heard of &#8212; that it&#8217;s considered rude to be joined at the hip to your significant other for the entire party and interact primarily with him/her (at both sit-down parties and non-sit down parties).</p>
<p>I understand Hugo is opening up a conversation about his hosting techniques, and I am glad learn about other people&#8217;s hosting styles. However, I remain surprised that certain points are even up for debate. For example, I&#8217;m baffled by complaints from people who resent that they&#8217;re expected to socialize with strangers when attending parties. When did socializing with strangers at parties become optional? This concept of social obligation seems a given when one has accepted a social invitation. I&#8217;m also baffled by assertions of socio-economic privilege and extroverted privilege; they hold no water for me.</p>
<p>I am an introvert. If I agree to attend as a guest, I&#8217;m to be sociable and friendly and do my best to go along with my host&#8217;s arrangements. Introversion is not an ample enough reason for neglecting one&#8217;s social obligations.</p>
<p>Parties are a group effort. They are about making others feel comfortable, and both host and guests must do their part to make this happen. And in the event a host has not been successful making his/her guests feel comfortable, a guest still has a social obligation to be friendly, inclusive, and respectful of the host&#8217;s wishes (just as a host is obligated to remain gracious even if a guest has not been the best guest). We cannot control whether others fulfill their responsibilities, but we certainly can do our best to fulfill our own.</p>
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