Anyway, I suggest that we stop this argument. This is way off topic and I don’t think either of us wish to be rude to Hugo by derailing his thread. If you feel the need to reply to what I’ve said, I will probably read it, but this will be my last comment regarding this matter.

And you say ‘opinions’ like they can never be full of shit.

I’ve made it a habit of not going on feminist blogs and commenting without being invited in some fashion. And if you’d done your homework instead of being eager to snark on Rush Limbaugh, well, this wouldn’t be a problem either. He at least several times a year makes the point he didn’t invent the term - also makes it obvious you haven’t listened to him.

Also, do you know the term “don’t throw stones from glass houses”? It’s not like I’m the first person to make a factual error — that’s why even major publications have to put out error corrections all the time. All publications will sometimes make mistakes (yes, even basic ones), and I seriously doubt you have never mixed up a fact or cited a source that did so.

Why I like to give opinions, rather than engage in contests of lies, damnable lies, and statistics. Generally the minute someone starts tossing out stats, I start rolling up the cuffs of my trousers.

Lastly, the error may be “contrary to fact” but it doesn’t invalidate my point, especially since the context itself isn’t pertinent to which anti-feminist coined the term.

Oh, but I disagree -the term was specifically invented to differentiate between the more militant feminists and others. Now if you don’t wish to make that distinction, fine and dandy - but it then becomes disingenuous to throw out the canned “not all feminists think alike” canard. You can’t have it both ways.

The truth is that I have been driven away from feminism by the frequent overt hostility of feminists to my being a victim of some abuse. I was driven straight into the arms of the mens’ rights movement as a consequence.

I was a teenager in the seventies. I was drawn to feminism for a host of reasons not the least of which was a strong left wing heritage.

Among those reasons was, maybe simplistically, a hope that we could create a world where appearences or physical attractiveness would become less of an issue. That we could begin to judge people on what they did rather than what they looked like.

Another, and more importantly, was a recognition that we treated women like children.

On the first of these I have been sadly disappointed. On the second I’m developing a perception that not only are we still doing it but that it is feminism which is leading the charge.

I find myself stuck in the middle and feeling like I’m being bombed by both sides in this stupid “war”. And I can’t help feeling that feminism has lost touch with some of it’s original principles.

I know this is a strictly personal view and not well expressed so I’d expect to be roundly criticised for it. Maybe it’d be best sumarised by saying that if I was to list my personal “heroes” chief among them would be Ghandi and Martina Navratilova. Make of that what you will.

Thanks, Gonzman, for snarking about it here instead of having the common courtesy to point out the factual error on my site. Where, you know, it could have been speedily addressed.

Also, do you know the term “don’t throw stones from glass houses”? It’s not like I’m the first person to make a factual error — that’s why even major publications have to put out error corrections all the time. All publications will sometimes make mistakes (yes, even basic ones), and I seriously doubt you have never mixed up a fact or cited a source that did so.

Lastly, the error may be “contrary to fact” but it doesn’t invalidate my point, especially since the context itself isn’t pertinent to which anti-feminist coined the term.

this seems key to me. everybody has to pick their battles and their comfort zone (be it name-changing, shaving, make-up, etc.) — but if you never take on a battle, never challenge your level of comfort, then you are implicitly accepting the status quo, which is an oppressive patriarchal society. pick your battles, but get in there somewhere. mulling over a cup of tea isn’t enough.

(of course, I feel this same way about politics, religion, and any other set of precepts or values that we claim guide our thoughts and lives. get into the game or stop pretending you’re on the field.)