But before we go off on “My life your life” I’d just like to clarify one thing.

Your accomplishments are STILL your accomplishments. Just because you had and have privelege doesn’t mean that you didn’t deserve it. If anything, it means we have no way of telling if you deserved them or not. It’s like a race: if you start out with a headstart and you win, you could legitimately be the better runner and you still had to run the race. But it doesn’t prove that you are better than the person who started out behind you, because the race wasn’t fair to begin with. Similarily, you are right about personal responsibility to some small degree: the person who starts behind you will never win if they don’t run.

Now that I have that out of the way, I’d like to point out some other things in your comments.

There will always be someone who has more than you, and looking at them and assuming they got it because of privilege is just envy.

It seems to be the case here that we are all doing quite well. We can recognize our own privelege without getting defensive, and we can recognize our own barriers, so I don’t think envy has anything to do with it.

Your friends who aren’t doing as well as you obviously don’t have the skills you do.

Or it might just be that they don’t have the resources. I know its difficult to focus on studying if you have a toothache that won’t go away because you can’t fix it because you have no dental insurance. Or the only job you can take is late at night so your not getting the sleep you need. Or any other number of scenarios that might make it harder to succeed. It doesn’t have anything to do with skills.

The U.S. is a meritocracy and if you do well you have the chops.

I’m afraid I cannot answer that without being horrible sarcastic. So I will just say this: if you believe that, I have to say that you are extrodinarily classist and racist.

If you don’t do well there is something you lack, whether you realise it or not. Your friends likely don’t have a certain skill that you don’t realise, and that is why they aren’t doing as well as you now.

Or privelege is making up for the skill you do lack. Almost anyone can beat a video game if they have infinate lives. Almost anyone can get a degree if they get to try over and over again.

So what?

This statement lacks compassion.

The world is unfair

If we thought the world was fair, we wouldn’t be activists

and it is not the place of government to make it more fair, level the playing field, or get equal outcomes.
I’m advocating equal oppurtunities, nto equal outcomes.

Some people start out life with more. That’s how it is. I don’t want the government or anyone to put policies in place that decide who has less and then give them money and resources.

Then I have to ask: why not? Why don’t you care that the game is rigged from the get go?

I do not agree that there are racial or gender privileges in the U.S. today;

Then you are either delusional, lacking empathy, or racist and sexist yourself, and I say this to anyone who espouses this. This is not meant to be an insult, this is a critism.

other than minorities are given preference over whites, men, etc. Again, I’m afraid I cannot answer this without being sarcastic. Perhaps someone else could help me?

This isn’t Mississippi in 1947, and this isn’t Saudi Arabia. We have rectified those issues in this country and continued pressing for more equality is just an attempt at superiority at this juncture. Women and minorities in this country have it better than anywhere else, anytime in the history of humanity.

But they still don’t have it as good as white men. You are doing the wrong comparison: it should be compared to white men in this country, not in the past or in other countries.

If you think there is racial privilege here, then talk to the Native Americans in Central America. Ask them what happens if they try to sneak into Mexico illegally.

If you think there is gender privilege here, then look into what happens to Iranian women who cheat, have sex out of wedlock, or are raped.

Again, it is the wrong comparison point. And, there is a threat implicit in that: stop complaining or we’ll make it like it is there. That is very dangerous ground to be on.

And for the third time I am telling you that where I am now has nothing to do with privilege and everything to do with decisions I made over the past 5 years.

And you are not listening to a word anybody has said. Again, it is not to degenerate your accomplishments, which I’m sure were hard one. But, it is to say no man is an island, and there were less barriers to your accomplishments than to other people that maybe you would NOT have been able to overcome. You probably make good decisions. You probably did work very hard. But that doesn’t mean that no small amount of luck and privelege played a part in your success.

Someone once wrote anyone under 30 who has a heart is a Socialist and anyone over 30 with a brain is a Capitalist. I had values similar to yours when I was 21, 25 years ago.

Ah yes: your views are wrong because you are young. I frequently run into this mindset, as a 22-year-old college female.

Experiences are not the end all, be-all of wisdom. Some experiences make you less wise.

Reality intervened.

Perhaps, or any other number of things could have happened to reduce your cognitive dissonance.

Everyones failures ARE their own fault. Mine, yours, everyones. This is called accepting responsibility for your life.

All of us are where we are because of choices WE made, and blaming where we are on someone or something else is just victimology. No one is coming to save you. You want to do something, then do it!

With a more realistic view of privilege will come better social problems (calm down, not socialism) that will allot a tiny bit of privilege to the underprivileged.

That’s redistribution of income and assets, and that’s Socialism whether you want to admit it or not. Hiring preferences, Affirmative Action are both based in the Socialist idea of leveling the playing field for those who have less than others.

Paris Hilton represents such a small percentage of people that she isn’t worth discussing. There are people who are rich, there are people who have rich parents. That’s life. You can whine about it or do your best.

My own family owned a multi-million dollar business in 1960. By the time I was 9 that industry was dust, my father was bankrupt, and we lost it all. I got over that decades ago and I don’t begrudge those who are still in the business whose kids went to Ivy League schools, etc. There will always be someone who has more than you, and looking at them and assuming they got it because of privilege is just envy.
Your friends who aren’t doing as well as you obviously don’t have the skills you do. The U.S. is a meritocracy and if you do well you have the chops. If you don’t do well there is something you lack, whether you realise it or not. Your friends likely don’t have a certain skill that you don’t realise, and that is why they aren’t doing as well as you now. In 20 years they might be much more successful than you.

you cannot disagree with the fact that the same level of success is infinitely easier for one with financial/ racial/ gender privilege to achieve. If so, please explain how it is not.

So what? The world is unfair and it is not the place of government to make it more fair, level the playing field, or get equal outcomes. Some people start out life with more. That’s how it is. I don’t want the government or anyone to put policies in place that decide who has less and then give them money and resources. I do not agree that there are racial or gender privileges in the U.S. today; other than minorities are given preference over whites, men, etc. This isn’t Mississippi in 1947, and this isn’t Saudi Arabia. We have rectified those issues in this country and continued pressing for more equality is just an attempt at superiority at this juncture. Women and minorities in this country have it better than anywhere else, anytime in the history of humanity.

If you think there is racial privilege here, then talk to the Native Americans in Central America. Ask them what happens if they try to sneak into Mexico illegally.

If you think there is gender privilege here, then look into what happens to Iranian women who cheat, have sex out of wedlock, or are raped.

What I advocate is the admission of privilege, and its role in your accomplishments.

And for the third time I am telling you that where I am now has nothing to do with privilege and everything to do with decisions I made over the past 5 years.

Someone once wrote anyone under 30 who has a heart is a Socialist and anyone over 30 with a brain is a Capitalist. I had values similar to yours when I was 21, 25 years ago.

Reality intervened.

All the best,
-Lee.

I’m not going to say “NUH UH, YOU’RE WRONG!!” back and forth with you. We disagree, likely because you are in denial, and likely because the pervasiveness of the bootstraps theory succeeded in convincing you that your own failures are your fault, so no one should be held accountable for making “the system” more unbiased.

I am not advocating socialism or communism; in fact, my family and I escaped it some years back, for good reason. I am advocating a realistic look at why some people achieve success, and why some don’t. Paris Hilton is not a multimillionaire (billionaire?) because she is intelligent, or a good singer, or talented. At all. And there are many many slightly less flamboyant examples of her in the world around us, who have only achieved because their path was already semi-carved out for them. However different our perspectives may be, you cannot disagree with the fact that the same level of success is infinitely easier for one with financial/ racial/ gender privilege to achieve. If so, please explain how it is not.

And what are we supposed to do about it? How do we get rid of this so-called privilege? Should we create a new neo-communist society? Thats the only I can us getting of “old money” and the class system?

See the above. Setting up a strawman and arguing against it is not a very efficient way of discussion. I never advocated communism. What I advocate is the admission of privilege, and its role in your accomplishments. With a more realistic view of privilege will come better social problems (calm down, not socialism) that will allot a tiny bit of privilege to the underprivileged (but not take it away from the privileged, because that is impossible.)

Also, to lee, I think double posting is frowned upon here…

Admitting that without vast amounts of privilege you would not have achieved what you have now is hard.

Factually untrue. But please, continue to blind yourself to the reality of my life. It amuses me.

By ignoring the way privilege operates in daily life, you are choosing to blind yourself to the reality that were you born in different circumstances, your hard work and perseverance alone would NOT have gotten you where you are today.
By assuming that privilege got me to where I am is blinding yourself to the fact that I had none.

Broke, $500/month in income and homeless doesn’t look like privilege to anyone.

It’s ignorant to say that because a few individuals managed to crawl out of the (race, class, or gender) gutter, and be incredibly successful, that everyone ought to be able to.
It is defeatist to say that every cannot to so.

To blame your station on race, class or gender and require some rectification is just Socialism, Communism and redistribution of your and my hard earned money.

Socialism and restribution of income from the ‘haves’ to ‘have nots’ died on 11-9-89. Humanity tried it, we ran a lengthy experiment, and it failed totally.

I also am not arguing that everyone can be incredibly successful.

Not everyone can, and I include myself. It is called talent and ability. Some have it, some don’t.

Life is unfair, I want it to remain so, and I would not want to live in a world that is fair by that standard.

The bootstraps myth is pervasive, namely because of how conveniently it allows us to deny that our achievements weren’t facilitated by our upbringing or position in society.
I suppose the way to rectify this situation in your eyes would be to give those who ‘are less fortunate’ and ‘have no privilege’ (however that is defined or decided upon) money, preference and other resources for free.

The bootstrap ‘Myth’ is pervasive because it is true, accurate and real.

The man I work for is worth a great deal.

He started out poor, living in the Jewish slums of Argentina. He had zero. Nothing. All his relatives except his mother went up the chimney in Nazi Germany. He built a business in Argentina, took that money and moved to Israel, took that money and moved to L.A. He sold cars for 10 years, took THAT money and started a contracting business. That was 13 years ago.

Now he earns high 6-figures.

No privilege, nothing. An immigrant, with poor English skills (trust me on that one…), no relatives, no inheritance, Jewish, a heavy accent, short.

There is nothing more I can post.

You are convinced that you cannot succeed and that others cannot due to circumstance. I post of people in those, or worse, circumstances, and you simply dismiss these facts.

You think you cannot, and others cannot, and blame race, class or gender. I know the next step is for the government to level this allegedly playing field to be more fair. Next you will take my money to give it away (aka ‘Taxes’).

This is what is at the root of so much Democratic Social Liberalism, and it is why I switched from being a Liberal to a Libertarian/Conservative 12 years ago.

Our life views are irreconcilable.

I want those who succeed to keep their money.
You want to take it to make life more fair.

I know success can be had if you work at it.
You believe most cannot due to race class or gender.

I can’t do anything about your attitude that there is nothing you can do, and it is all up to ‘luck’.

If you think you can, you aren’t guaranteed to succeed, but you stand a chance.

If you think you can’t, you definitely, 100% are guaranteed you won’t.

And how, pray tell, did you manage not to get into debt in the first place?
By not going into debt. By only taking out $8k in student loans that paid off @ $49.01/month.

By not going back for another degree because I realised that most jobs don’t require it, and that you can earn a very good living without one.

Discipline. Low cc balances. Purchase a car used for cash. Basic money management.

I’d really like to see a person direct me to how I can pay 100,000 dollars worth of an education without going into debt.
I don’t intend to be hard-nosed, but you chose to get an expensive education. You chose to go into debt to finance it. You chose your major and career that makes it (apparently) difficult to pay off such a large debt.

No one forced you, you chose of your own free will.

Doesn’t matter what my summer job is, I’m not getting that kind of money.

Time to re-think your assumptions about education, career, and ROI.

Ah, the unquestioned privelege of the smugly self-righteous.
I earned all that I have. Not a dime was given to me. No inheritance, no job placements via a call to Dad, nothing, nada.

I love how this “I just worked hard” attitude means that they don’t have to change anything about themselves.
I am fascinated that you conclude that I didn’t change anything about myself: on the contrary.

Working hard and assessing what works and what doesn’t absolutely necessitates changings oneself, outlook and attitude.

I couldn’t have gotten to where I am being the same person I was 15 years ago. Wouldn’t happen.

They get to ignore people who didn’t have their resources.

Again you imply I had some hidden well of resources, again I reply that I do not, again you simply ignore what I write.

This is, again, an exemplary example of the attitude of those who look at others who achieve and blame some hidden ‘privilege’. Even when I tell you the details of my situation, you just ignore it to continue with your bias of hopelessness, envy and jealousy.

That is sad.

I meant >>Thats the only way I can see us getting RID of “old money” and the class system