Let me follow up on this morning’s post about condoms4life. I wrote briefly of my own strong "pro-condom" feelings, and I wanted to elaborate a bit.
In a world where women get pregnant and men don’t, one task for feminist men in sexual relationships with women is to think long and hard about issues of responsibility and consequences. It’s easy to give lip service to the notion that contraception is the equal responsibility of both partners, harder for even the most well-intentioned man to grasp just how much more serious the consequences of an unintended pregnancy will be for his female partner. While unplanned fatherhood poses a considerable set of challenges, no matter how involved he plans to be, the man who inseminates his girlfriend, lover, wife, or hook-up will not be pregnant.
So what does this mean for a couple’s contraceptive choices? Well, as we say in the blogosphere often, YMMV. (Your Mileage May Vary.) In other words, no one method is right for every couple. Individual preferences, individual resources, and individual physiologies make it impossible to prescribe one particular drug, practice, or device. Certainly, there is no one "feminist form of birth control." But one thing is clear: men need to make sure that the "burdens" of birth control, be they physical or financial, are equally shared. A man cannot go through a pregnancy; a man cannot undergo an abortion; a man does not give birth. But while what happens after conception is entirely beyond his control, what happens before is fully and equally his responsibility.
I like many things about condoms: they are cheap. They are widely available without a prescription. When used correctly, they are remarkably effective against both pregnancy and most sexually transmitted infections. They produce few side effects, aside from the small number of folks who are allergic to latex or spermicide. And what I really, really like as a pro-feminist man is that they are something the male must wear. By wearing a condom, a man becomes a more active participant in the contraceptive process; his willingness to "cover up" symbolizes his concern for his partner and for himself. When a man relies solely on his female partner’s use of hormonal birth control (pills and patches and so forth), or counts on her to put in the IUD, the NuvaRing, the diaphragm, he is not nearly as equal a participant as he is when he willingly wears a condom (and puts one on without being asked!)
I am NOT saying women shouldn’t use other forms of contraception. Again, YMMV. But having been married four times and having been in many relationships, I’ve noted that contraceptive choices do have an impact on the relationship. I’ve known many women who took the Pill; some loved it, while others experienced clear adverse side effects ranging from depressed libido to weight gain to more painful periods. (And then there was the ex who was trying Natural Family Planning. Of course, her libido was its strongest precisely on the days when she was most fertile, so that was a big bust.) While it’s not my place to tell even my wife what medication to take, if she’s only taking the Pill because I don’t want to wear condoms, then she is enduring discomfort for my sake. Given that when we do have children, she’ll have the discomfort of pregnancy too, that seems monumentally unfair. A willingness to wear condoms on my part, in and out of marriages, is part of my commitment to "leveling the playing field" as much as possible.
Of course, I haven’t always been as zealous as I am today. As I’ve written before, I got my high school girlfriend pregnant when we were both teenagers. We weren’t using anything, and one reason why was because I tended (at 17) to be unpleasantly sulky about wearing condoms. She used the old "Today Sponge" for a while, but on the day she got pregnant, nothing but condoms were at hand and I didn’t want to wear one. Nothing like watching someone you care about go through an abortion because you were too selfish to "bag it" to make a profound impression!
Globally, condoms represent the best physical tool we have for halting the spread of sexually transmitted viruses like AIDS. While sexual education and spiritual transformation also have a role to play in the battle to liberate the world from this terrible scourge, condoms represent a relatively inexpensive, easy-to-use practical tool. Other forms of contraception are simply too expensive and require too much medical involvement to be useful in the developing world. The key is simple: getting men to wear them. Even more than overcoming the resistance of the Catholic Church to condoms, overcoming male reluctance to wear something that produces an infinitesimal reduction in sensation is the greatest obstacle we’ve got.
Condoms are certainly unequalled in their ability to prevent disease transmission. To say, though, that they are more suited to the developing world than other, longer-lasting forms of contraception (especially IUDs) is not always accurate–women in rural settings may not have reliable access to condoms; if subsidized by the government or NGOs, IUDs may be more financially accessible than privately-purchased condoms; women (as you’ve noted, indirectly) are not always able to demand or negotiate condom use with their partners.
infinitesimal reduction in sensation
Infinitesimal? Depends on the man. I can’t feel anything through a condom. It is impossible for me to have an orgasm with one on. Sure, there are other ways to get off, but in my experience it’s disappointing to both me and the partners I’ve had that I never have an orgasm from intercourse. I’ve never been in a long-term relationship, but if I ever do I probably would have to require that we use some form of birth control other than the condom, and yes, that will fall more heavily on her than me. If she refuses that would probably be a deal-breaker. I don’t see wanting to actually enjoy intercourse as such a selfish desire.
Glitch, I suggest you shop around, try the ultra-sensitive ones. In a long-term relationship, you may find that orgasming with a condom becomes easier.
Kate, I’m all in favor of targeting a condom message to men — making a compelling moral case for the use of condoms. Given that you’re right, women will struggle at times to negotiate condom use, the IUD and other devices may also be necessary.
try the ultra-sensitive ones
I have. Same effect. Besides, aren’t the ultra-sensitive models just thinner than regular ones? That’s the impression I got. If so, whatever health benefits and birth control the condom is providing are likely to be drastically reduced by using thinner ones.
Glitch, there’s no evidence of a compromise in safety (or an increase in pregnancy) using ultra-sensitive. The government sets safety standards that are met by all major US brands (Trojan, Lifestyles, etc.)
Oh, and Glitch, I am not accusing you of doing this, but I had a buddy who used to get out of wearing condoms by claiming he couldn’t come. He would act as if the wearing of the condom was so oppressive that the sex wouldn’t be worthwhile, and would actually “play” at refusing sex unless he could go bareback. It worked like a charm for him, and he was lying through his teeth…
Glitch, I’ve heard good things about the Inspiral condoms and the ones with the little “pouch” at the tip. Or maybe you and your partner could use the female condom?
Maureen - Well, if I ever have sex again maybe I’ll give them a try.
I’ve had a vasectomy (and there is no force in the universe that will ever get me to reverse it, I’ve had two and the Chiefly baby factory is closed for good now) so condoms are, to some extent, a non-issue to me. As far as other guys go and what I would recommend, I have mixed feelings. On the whole I guess I recommend them if you’ve not been snipped although my recommendation has less to do with “sharing responsibility” and more to do with trusting the condom instead of a female partner. When the condom is on you know you’re protected. When she says she took her pill? Maybe, maybe not. I personally am looking forward to the male birth control pill, it’s going to do a whole lot to level the playing field as far as deciding when and if to reproduce. I’m not holding my breath, however. Read somewhere recently that it’s five to ten years away, but it seems like we’ve been hearing that for several decades.
For guys who have had the vasectomy, I think condom use is a non-issue. Here’s an interesting article that is hard to argue with although it debunks a lot of assumptions regarding AIDs….
http://www.john-ross.net/aids.htm
Congrats, Chief. I was wondering if we could get to that old MRA standby, the “all those women out there who want to trap good men by getting pregnant” trope. We got there within ten comments, which is right on target.
Sigh.
Did I say ALL women? No, of course not. Did I say MOST women? No. But I’m employed as a child support worker. I’ve talked to a whole lot of men who were told by their partners that everything was covered, and then got a nasty surprise nine months later or so. I believe that there is a significant enough minority of such women out there that I’d just as soon maintain control over my own reproductive power, thank you, especially being determined to have an active sex life (I’ve pretty much determined to take my pleasures in life when, where and how I can get them). If the situation were reversed (if men had the birth control pill but women had a more reassuring option open to them, like a condom) I wouldn’t be offended if she insisted on condom use (or the use of a sponge, IUD, whatever).
Setting aside the Child-Support Vampires meme, the Pill is not magic; it has a failure rate.
Glitch: InSpirals. Can’t say enough good things about ‘em.
The issue with IUD is that unfortunately, it can increase the risk of contracting STDs.
:( It’s a damn, damn fine contraceptive for many people.
I’d love to see the male pill happen. although talking to lots of men, I have not had warm reception- most men weren’t willing to take it.
Also, the pill and hormonal birth control CAN kill the libido of the woman, but I notice that many men would rather thier GF suffer libido issues (and complain loudly about it) rather than have to use a condom.
One more: pills fail. I can personally attest to that. In fact, I got pregnant while on a pill and using condoms, before the EC days. It’s amazing how men accuse you of “trapping” them, and won’t even consider that it was possibly a failure of some sort. Women are people too, and women forget to take pills just like men do- but when we do, it’s never just an accident, it’s always because we’re insidious bitches. When a man refuses to wear a condom, he’s always justified.
*Groan*
You know what? I ‘ve known women that have indeed “trapped” a man. And there were signs everywhere for months, if not years- before it happened. with the exception on one case, the guy ignored the signs that people have told him about and stuck around for the “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.” If he had been honest about his lack of interest for a commitment and acted on it by getting the hell out, he wouldn’t be making child support payments now. It’s not just the “evil womenZ.” Often, the men had a role to play in it by misleading or being uncommunicative or something else.
Catty, I blame the idiocy of men who won’t protect themselves at least as much as I blame the perfidy of women who trap men (thanks for admitting that such a thing can happen, BTW). I just said I support condom use–why is anybody having a problem with this? Is it because I believe having veto power over our own reproductive ability is empowering for men? I thought feminism was about empowering everybody…
Groovy post!
I must nitpick on behalf of women who track their fertility. I use a fertility awareness method (not NFP, which requires abstinence during the fertile phase). Yes, my libido’s high when I’m fertile, so my partner and I… use condoms during that time! Hurrah! :) (Not to mention all the other things one can do to satisfy a libido that don’t include PIV intercourse).
In this way, I think we’re achieving an equality in who shoulders the responsibility of contraception. *I* track my fertility (he’s involved in this process, too) and *he* wears condoms sometimes.
Glitch, I third the Inspiral recommendation!
Fair enough, Bianca — my objection to fertility awareness is primarily to that pushed by the “no-contraception crowd”. They advocate abstinence during the high fertility phase, which creates the libido problem. If you’re willing to use condoms during that time, yay! And double yay for an involved partner! In my past relationship, the goal was “no artificial methods”, and that was where we floundered.
Hugo, I have a problem with this. I consider myself a pro feminist man. I have serious trouble keeping my body in the proper state when the condom comes into play. I dont want to put the pressure of contreception onto my girlfriend, but I dont know what to do, as condoms have proven a great difficulty. I’ve heard you talk about the guys who dont like to use them before in class and how you think they’re just making excuses, but I really would like to use them, they just dont work, as I lose my erection. Without surgery, what are my other options to take the pressure off of her?
Oh, and Glitch, I am not accusing you of doing this, but I had a buddy who used to get out of wearing condoms by claiming he couldn’t come.
He could be telling the truth, actually. Sensitivity in that area varies from person to person. And some medications (e.g. antidepressants) can make it difficult to come without intense sensation.
(Of course, he could also just be lying.)
I’m not saying condoms are a bad thing, of course - I would never, ever have sex with a woman without one unless we were monogamous and using other forms (as my GF and I are now). But if a less obtrusive alternative is available, I would cheer it on.
Monkey, I do think talking to a doctor would be an excellent idea. Condoms and erectile dysfunction are not physiologically linked, but there may be a psychological dimension — and I am not enough of an expert to rule out a physiological problem. If you and your girlfriend decide on alternative contraception, great; YMMV applies here. But do be willing to look at all of the possible causes of this.
As for sensation, one touchy point: sometimes (not always) the complaint is linked to masturbation. If you’re ejaculating regularly through masturbation and then trying to have intercourse with a condom, chances are good you’ll notice a sensation decrease. Cut back (or cut out) the masturbation, let things build up for a while, and I think you’ll notice a rapid increase in responsiveness. Not always the issue, but sometimes it is.
Has helped partners of mine for sensation with condoms: lube the inside of the condom (warming-lube a possibility) and larger condoms. Also, some of the enhancers women use (usually having peppermint in them), also have worked. Suggestion for those who are having trouble with the sheath: masturbate using condoms and your variety of lubes and enhancers until you’ve got some combo that’s working. The inSpiral looks pretty good, too.
As for losing an erection; in my experience that’s often an issue that practise can resolve; and learning to make the getting the condom on sexy. Also - even going a little tepid is a recoverable thing if you don’t worry too much about it, and continue with whatever was so interesting before the condom.
In a long term relationship things like STD tests and female condoms can obviously work; but otherwise, “No glove, no love” just makes sense.
Even if for some reason you’re unthreatened by AIDS: Herpes sucks rocks, HPV may give your partner cervical cancer (not to mention how gruesome having your genitals approached with liquid nitrogen for having the warts burned off), gonorrhea and chlamydia can silently cause infertility, etc.
I know people who’ve been infected with diseases because condoms just weren’t worth the hassle; partners who’ve claimed no prior experience; etc.
STDs are bad news. I have 2 infertile friends - one man, one woman - due to prior infections. Also, one family member with complete hysterectomy due to HPV related cancer.
I have been concerned about the fact that we drift further and further away from talking about actually controlling ourselves and not engaging in sexual intercourse until we are ready to accept the consequences (i.e. pregnancy). I know “preaching abstinence” ALONE will do nothing to change the situation, but the absolute REFUSAL to even discuss self-control concerns me greatly. Believe it or not, we do have the capacity to constrain ourselves…Christ is the ultimate example of this (witness the temptations he endured during his fast), yet we somehow think it a terrible thing to even suggest we should restrain our urges, as if we have no more control than my dog does when she is in heat.
OF COURSE condoms need to be taught and kids need to know they have access to them and we need to talk about safe sex and how to keep from getting STDs and unwanted pregnancies. But I think we have to cover all the bases. I ran into this when we had an open discussion at my son’s middle school where they laid out for us parents what was going to be available to the kids for sex education in health classes. They talked about how they would discuss condoms and the pill and Planned Parenthood, etc, etc, but when I asked about how they were going to address abstinence I was greeted with icy stares and given the “That is not realistic” talk, then stared down, daring me to disagree. Instead I opted my son out of the class and will educate him at home.
My question is, why can’t abstinence be discussed? Is it really a terrible thing to suggest that kids learn to control themselves (while at the same time giving them the tools they need to be safe if they choose not to exercise that control)? My son knows the whys and wherefores of sexual relationships and his roll toward women. He knows how to use a condom and that he can trust my wife and I do discuss this kind of topic whenever he chooses (and he initiates the discussions fairly regularly). But he also knows that it is a CHOICE and that maybe the best choice is to wait until he is ready for those consequences before he acts on those urges. I do not kid myself into believing he will go to his marriage a virgin, but at least I put the seed there that it is ok to wait, that he can control himself if he chooses to. That he has more power over his body, mind, and soul than instinct would lead him to believe. And he knows I will love him no matter what he chooses for his life. But it seems to me that never talking about abstinence as a possibility denies the ability to choose (it is after all only giving one choice….have sex no matter what…then the choice becomes do it safely or do it unsafely….what happened to the choice not to?)
Thanks for speaking up in favor of condoms.
It seems like a lot of people think of hormonal birth-control as an all-purpose panacea, and minimize the severity of the side effects some women have. I have a clotting disorder (quite a common one, though rarely tested for) and am under strict orders not to do things that could increase my risk of blood clots–like any form of hormonal birth control. I was, nevertheless, briefly on a low-dose birth control pill, whose side effects (I believe) led indirectly to a second-degree burn.
And naturally every couple should work out the birth-control arrangements that work the best for them; but it seems normative for men to expect women to get on the pill, or other hormonal birth control, and voices against that normative expectation are a good thing.
I have been concerned about the fact that we drift further and further away from talking about actually controlling ourselves and not engaging in sexual intercourse until we are ready to accept the consequences (i.e. pregnancy).
Well, Farrell, some of us married people wish to engage in sexual intercourse with our spouses. Are you really suggesting that, since my spouse and I have as many children as we wish, we should now remain celibate for the rest of our wedded life?
thanks for admitting that such a thing can happen, BTW
Of course it can–just as there are men who ‘trap’ their partners by figuring “she can’t leave me if I get her knocked up”, or who figure they’ll just deny they ever knew the bitch if she gets knocked up.
For guys who have had the vasectomy, I think condom use is a non-issue.
Well, if your only concern is pregnancy, sure, but I think the STD risk makes it worth it.
Indeed, Farrell; I wrote in favor of condoms today as a married man in a marriage in which they are our preferred contraceptive option. With respect, you’ve found a straw man.
At the risk of entering a conversation that’s already ended:
One of the problems that I have with the self-control argument is that it assumes that enjoying sex for its own sake is a MORAL bad, and that abstinence is a MORAL good. Why save sex for when you’re ready to deal with pregnancy? If sex is enjoyable and can be enjoyed with relatively low risk (I’m pretty sure the fatality rate is lower than freeway driving), why assume that abstinence is better than indulgence?
If you’re going to use the food metaphor, bear in mind that people don’t abstain from food; at best they moderate their intake. Moderating sex is definitely a good idea, and overindulgence can lead to, among other things, a remarkable drop-off in other hobbies. But what constitutes “moderate” or “immoderate” varies from person to person, but total abstinence isn’t moderation, it’s pretty extreme.
I guess it my response to the abstinence-only policy is not so much “it’s not realistic”, but “why would you want to”?
“In fact, I got pregnant while on a pill and using condoms.”
AHHHHHHHH!!!! Now I’m gonna start freaking out.
On “trapping” a man: there’s one situation where I really strongly feel that the man should be using a condom, even if disease prevention isn’t an issue. And that’s the case where discussion has already made it darn clear that the woman wants a child and the man doesn’t. OK, arguably that couple shouldn’t be together to begin with. But if they are going to sleep together, given that: a) any contraception will fail some of the time even when used properly, b) even people who really, really don’t want children are imperfect in using contraception, c) people who really, really want children are even more imperfect about using contraception, and, d) even a genuine contraception failure is going to be harder to believe if both parties already knew that the one handling the contraception really didn’t want it, well, given all those things, it is just plain dumb to give the entire contraceptive responsibility to the person who does want a child. Doubling up on contraception is fine, but a condom should at least be part of the package in this situation. Unless the guy is willing to get a vasectomy.
SO and I used condoms until we had both been checked out at our local GUM (genito-urinary medicine) clinic, and we were monogamous from day one. I then chose (and continue to choose) to take the Pill because I dislike the interruption of the ‘process’ involved with using condoms. I’ve considered the IUD but to be honest the thought of it gives me the creeps, lol!
As for forgetting a Pill - yep, done that. If you remember within 12 hrs, you’re ok. If not, there is always the morning-after pill, which is effective up to 72 hrs later.
Having said that, my sister is carrying a Pill baby. Her use was perfect (trust me, she’s obsessive) and her BF knows she wouldn’t have gotten PG on purpose without his consent. He now thinks he has super-sperm, lol! They are eagerly looking forward to the arrival of their daughter (eta Feb 07)
i’m a female and i know what TheChief means. not only because there’s a minority out there that will trap their partner into parenthood but, like mentioned before, pills can fail - or the one who is taking it.
well, when i first heard that they develop the “male pill” i wished they bloody hurried!
but honestly… even if i always did the best to use the pill 100% correctly, it happened twice that at the end of the month there was a pill left and freaked out. i was lucky though - but we’re all human beings and those are far from perfect, nevermind if they’re male or female. and some friends of mine, although sexually active and in their mid-twenties don’t know that antibiotics can destroy the pill’s effect - and even more men don’t. or if you have to throw up or have diarrhoea, you also can get pregnant.
i don’t know what possible things would make the “male pill” not work (although forgetting it, diarrhoea and throwing up most likely would, too, i guess), i personally would not want it to be the only contraception used. the pill is a bitch to take (and luckily i don’t have any negative side effects) but i am also quite happy that i am in control of it and no one else and have the possibility to check that any time i like without getting on anyones nerves or making my significant other feel like i don’t trust him at all. ummm… maybe i DO have trust issues lol but honestly, nobody’s perfect but i am the one whom i can control myself the best.
so… yay for condoms! cause if it’s on, a guy knows there is protection and the girl, too, can see it’s on and they both can go for it knowing that they are pretty safe.
themonkey, and anyone else out there who has difficulties “getting it up” whilst wearing a condom –
Do you masturbate with a condom?
If not, maybe you should think about doing so. Sexual response is a learned behaviour, and if the one way you’ve ever whacked off is sans condom, yes, the loss of stimulation can be a bit difficult to deal with. Don’t wait to have sex with a partner to test your new responses — it will just make you and the partner uncomfortable and less likely to enjoy the experience. When you masturbate with a condom, you get used to putting it on and taking it off. And most importantly, you get used to the sensations of having a condom on while enjoying yourself. Masturbation allows you the flexibility of figuring out on your own timescale how you need to be touched with the condom on, so that when you do try it with a partner, you’re not completely blinded.
Also, as West Coast Arwen said, a drop or two of lube inside the condom can work wonders for sensation.
Condomania is a website that sells tons of different condoms and talks about the specifications for all of them; if Trojans don’t work for you (there is no one condom out there that works for all men in terms of sensation and pleasure) experiment with different types.
Oh, and one other thing to think about; if you feel that you’re coming too quickly (How quick is too quick? That’s usually in your head, so there’s no one correct answer.) condoms can also help increase the amount of time a man is erect, through that lack of some sensation. What’s an annoyance for one can be a boon to another.
Good luck!
When you masturbate with a condom, you get used to putting it on and taking it off. And most importantly, you get used to the sensations of having a condom on while enjoying yourself. Masturbation allows you the flexibility of figuring out on your own timescale how you need to be touched with the condom on, so that when you do try it with a partner, you’re not completely blinded.*
Speaking as a male, this is not always true. The sensations from masturbation and sexual intercourse, for males at the very least, are not necessarily the same. There are many males who can achieve an orgasm wearing a condom through masturbation but still cannot have one having intercourse. If the issue is serious enough where a man must train himself to orgasm with a condom on, the simplest solution is to have his female partner wear a female condom. They may be slightly more expensive, but since this would be for their mutual enjoyment, one would assume no woman would take issue with wearing condom.
* - I must admit it is somewhat ironic that a woman is telling a man how his body does and does not respond. No offense intended, of course.
If the issue is serious enough where a man must train himself to orgasm with a condom on, the simplest solution is to have his female partner wear a female condom.
Why? Especially given the very equivocal data on whether the female condom prevents STD transmission.
I have to say that a large number of my female friends - and women generally, if Kinsey is to be believed - need something other than PIV intercourse to acheive orgasm. So if I had a partner who couldn’t have an orgasm via intercourse while wearing a condom: well, intercourse wouldn’t be way we’d get him there, then. There’s lots of other ways. Then intercourse would, in fact, be part of foreplay. No different than many, many women out there, regardless of condom usage or no… Sure, a little creativity is in order, but so the world turns if you’re having sex with women anyway. I’d much rather know I wasn’t getting or giving STDs to someone I cared enough about or desired enough to sleep with than to worry about some constricted view of where orgasms “should” happen.
As for the trapping thing, well, I have to agree with Lynn. If you don’t want to be trapped, and haven’t had a vasectomy, use a condom; and if you can’t have an orgasm with a condom, change your style of play.
(BTW: I’m the same Arwen who’s been hanging ’round here for awhile. I changed my name because a different Arwen has been around recently at Happy’s, and I wanted to clarify that my ramblings were not on her head!)
Toy Soldier, I’m sorry if you didn’t get a “Here is something to try” tone from my email. I worte here in my normal voice, which tends to be a bit more cut-and-dried than the tone I normally used when I’m giving advice concerning sex.
I’m a woman talking aobut the way men can feel because I’ve had training in discussing sex and sexual activities with both genders, and this is actually a question that does occur in my line. The typical answer is to try masturbating with a condom to get used to the sensation, since most men don’t ever put a condom on until they have P/V sex, and they aren’t prepared for the differences. If that isn’t true for you, then the advice isn’t valid for you, and you can ignore it. But there are a lot of men (and women) who don’t realize that it is possible to get used to a new sensation and grow to enjoy it. Learning how to like sex with a condom doesn’t mean that you’ll learn to hate sex without it; it’s an addition to your repetoire that you didn’t have before.
And WCArwen has a brilliant idea when she talks about not having P/V sex be the end-all and be-all. Mutual masturbation can be a fabulous way of having an orgasm with virtually no chance of pregnancy or STDs, forex.
Why?
One would assume women would not take issue with protecting both themselves and their partners by wearing a female condom.
Especially given the very equivocal data on whether the female condom prevents STD transmission.
What data are you speaking of? The female condom, while less researched, is only slightly less effective than male condoms in preventing STDS and pregnancy:
“Researchers have found the female condom to be an effective contraceptive if used consistently and correctly. Within the first year of consistent and correct use, only about 5 percent of women relying on the female condom will have an unintended pregnancy, compared to 3 percent for male condoms. Under typical conditions, when use is not always correct or consistent, the unintended pregnancy rate is 21 percent for the female condom, compared to 14 percent for the male condom. These female condom rates are based on a study in the United States and Latin America, which measured pregnancy rates over a six-month period.”
There is more information available, if you are interested. Granted, the female condom is more expensive, but since it is now available and reliable, it seems one-sided to place all the responsibility of STD prevention and use of condoms on males, especially when the failure rates of both types of condom are relatively the same.
Technocracygirl, I understood your tone and your advice. I simply found the latter ironic considering the likely response if the advice were reversed.
My point is that getting used to the sensation is not a necessity since female condoms are available. The female condom provides an effective—and faster—alternative than waiting for the man to train himself to get used to the lack of sensation condoms cause. Personally, I would suggest men suck it up and use male condoms for the sake of their own protection, good, bad or no sensation.
Again, I meant no offence, or to suggest that your advice was wrong, only that the advice you offered appeared to side-step an equally effective solution.
One would assume women would not take issue with protecting both themselves and their partners by wearing a female condom.
One would assume men would not take issue with protecting both themselves and their partners by wearing a condom, even if it took a little getting used to, just as many contraceptives used by women (including the female condom) take some getting used to.
In my experience, by the way, it’s men rather than women who really, really dislike the female condom. (”Like fucking a Baggie” is how I’ve usually heard it put.) I’m certainly not opposed to their use, and they’re a good option for many, but their effectiveness is inferior to the male condom. (Probably because male condoms are generally made of latex.)
“If the issue is serious enough where a man must train himself to orgasm with a condom on, the simplest solution is to have his female partner wear a female condom. ”
Actually, the simplest solution would be to disabuse the man of his belief that he has some right/necessity to orgasm inside of a woman’s vagina. I would also add that there is a high likelihood that if a man isn’t orgasming with a condom on during PIV sex, neither is his female partner. Strangely enough, the men who claim insensitivity with condom use don’t tend to cough up enough information about the overall quality of sex for both partners. Orgasming through PIV sex is only a fraction of sexual options, most of which are highly pleasurable and capable of producing orgasm (many with a very low risk of pregnancy).
If men don’t want to use condoms or find them difficult to use, then they should *not* expect to engage in vaginal intercourse.
I’m certainly not opposed to their use, and they’re a good option for many, but their effectiveness is inferior to the male condom.
Your link provided no such information. It does note that in one US study “[…]few women consistently used female condoms; most preferred male condoms for long-term use.” However, one cannot conflate personal preference with effectiveness. The difference, based on the available, data appears to be minimal, so there is no legitimate reason for not using the female condom.
But again, I would suggest men suck it up and use male condoms for the sake of their own protection, good, bad or no sensation.
“Actually, the simplest solution would be to disabuse the man of his belief that he has some right/necessity to orgasm inside of a woman’s vagina.”
Dear God, it’s come to this. Call me a patriarchal brute but if I’m in a committed relationships with a woman, if we’re monogomous to one another, if we’ve vowed (whether through legal marriage or just through a promise to one another) to seek sex only from each other, yeah, I think I DO have a certain right/necessity to orgasm inside her vagina, and on a fairly regular basis. Any woman who is so “Grrrl power” as to believe my needs are too insignificant for such consideration isn’t a woman worth looking at, much less engaging in a serious relationship, and good luck to her in find a man who will.
Your link provided no such information.
Female condoms are recommended for women who aren’t using male condoms. There isn’t anything in that article saying that both kinds work equally well; apparently ‘effectiveness studies’ are not published.
Chief, when my wife and I got married, we were clear that we were, in the spirit of Ephesians 5:21, to submit to one another. In the spirit of 1 Corinthians 7:5-6, we understand that we are permitted (not commanded) to offer ourselves body and soul to the other.
But I damn sure ain’t got no right to come inside my wife. Our souls may have been knitted together, but our bodies remain separate. Our mutual sexual delight is a gift we give each other, it is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, an obligation. Men or women who assume that they “own” their spouse’s reproductive organs bewilder and sadden me.
Hugo, let me put it this way. After a complex, unpleasant sexual situation with my late wife, my attitude with any current or future partners is pretty much as follows: I have a right to have sex. If the person who should be providing it for me isn’t willing to do so for whatever reason, that’s her right (and I’m not talking about the occasional instance of too tired or not feeling in the mood, I’m talking about the 17 month “headache” that too many women–married women, especially–seem to experience). At that point, however, it is my right to seek it elsewhere.
Hugo,
I think that your above comment (on a relatively trivial point in context) has clarified for me why I so viscerally disagree with you on issues about marriage.
I think marriage is mostly about obligations and promises. (And I’m still a newlywed, in a so-far very happy marriage.) And yes, I think procreative sex is one of those obligations–way down the list, but on it.
Sam and Chief, this is what I mean when I say we’ve “reached an epistemic gulf.”
I’m talking about the 17 month “headache” that too many women–married women, especially–seem to experience
Since many women do not acheive orgasm through PIV sex, one of the ways to make sure sex is a mutually enjoyable experience and therefore more likely to happen is to vary your style of play.
When you say, “I DO have a certain right/necessity to orgasm inside her vagina, and on a fairly regular basis. Any woman who is so “Grrrl power” as to believe my needs are too insignificant for such consideration isn’t a woman worth looking at”, you are mistaking the suggestions.
I absolutely agree that good sex is mutual, and that sex in which either partner’s enjoyment is discounted is in fact masturbation using someone else’s body, and not sexual expression with another.
However, none of us have rights to anyone else’s body; that is slavery.
There is no woman or man who “should” provide sex to us.
I certainly feel that our mutual enjoyment of our sex life is a bedrock of my relationship. One of us deciding that we chose to no longer have sex with the other would probably end our marriage.
That said, and during the times my husband’s libido has been lower than mine, my response was not to demand that he provide me a masturbatory device by way of his body. We worked together to find mutually satisfying sexual intimacy until his libido came back.
I was once married to someone with your attitude. Sex was a horrendous chore: and why wouldn’t it be? I was no more a person than an appliance. I did everything in my power to avoid sex.
No one, and I mean no one, has a “right” to my orifices. Yet, with a partner who treats me as an individual and participates in the mutual creation of pleasure and fun, I am happy to share.
I am an extremely sexually active person, now. Because sex is a shared enjoyable experience.
Frankly, I think your words are reprehensible, and that you should read them again and be filled with shame: that you would consider any part of another person your “right”, that anyone “should” be giving you anything. With that attitude, why would anyone ever want to share with you mutually? Any more than people gleefully “donate” their taxes…
Do you demand that it is your “right” that your male friends go golfing or fishing with you?
“Do you demand that it is your “right” that your male friends go golfing or fishing with you?”
Nope. But if I ask a male friend a few times to go, let’s say, shooting (I never golf and rarely fish but I do like plinking at tin cans regularly) and he keeps telling me no and making excuses, I figure I should just write him off for that particular activity and find another shooting partner.
Incidentally, I’m more than willing to do what I can to make sex a pleasurable experience for my partner. But in order for it to happen I do need her to show up to begin with.
procreative sex is one of those obligations
Uh oh. Should I kick my husband to the curb because our sex is no longer procreative?
Chief, the reason for the long headache probably isn’t because one’s wife simply likes withholding sex as a hobby. There’s a very thoughtful and helpful discussion here.
Mythago, I know the reasons are varied and multitudinous. In my own wife’s case it was probably depression (she was manic depressive, and alcoholic in the final year of her life), a weight problem (almost doubled her weight from the day I met her at one point) and some other issues.
Whatever it is, assuming that her partner is being at least baseline good to her (I don’t claim I was a perfect husband, but I don’t think I did anything to deserve forced celibacy for the rest of our lives together), the party who is saying no is the one who has to “get to yes.” She’s the one who is holding the veto power in the bedroom so she’s the one who has to stop using it. Dr. Laura–a person whom I suspect gets little regard around here, but I like at least some things she says–has some great advice for women in such a situation. “Remember when you had sex because you liked it? Remember when you’d take a shower, put on something sexy, dab a little perfume in your cleavage and tell your man ‘take me’ BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY WANTED IT?” And the research does support her. More and more, people who study this sort of thing say the mood often follows the action, and not vice versa.
Dr. Laura probably gets little respect around here because she doesn’t go on to ask the next question: “So why don’t you do those things anymore and why isn’t sex fun for you?”
It may be because mood follows action. It could be because back when you put on something sexy, your spouse thought foreplay was something other than grabbing your ass as you walked by with a basket of laundry. It could be that sex has become a power struggle, and the person wanting “yes” isn’t really seeking sex so much as what it represents.
Which is not to say that it’s 100% one person’s fault or the other, by any means; but Just Do It is only a solution when the reason for the lack of sex is that you’ve gotten out of the habit. If there’s something bigger going on, it’s just going to breed resentment, and it’s not going to fix the underlying issue.
The problem is–and here’s a quote directly from the “Why Your Wife Won’t Have Sex With You” link you provided…
“sometimes — I would even say USUALLY — women don’t actually, consciously know why they don’t want to have sex. She can’t “explain” because she doesn’t understand it herself.”
So if there is “something bigger going on,” as you say, the guy gets to spend a lot of quality time with a bottle of Astroglide and his right hand while the woman figures out just what her ISSUES are. Maybe he can get some good internet porn to help him along the way, unless his wife finds out about it and throws a fit because he’s been looking at other naked bodies as a result of the past several months that she wouldn’t have sex with him.
This is why marriage sucks, and one of the big reasons I guess you’d have to call me an MRA. If the relationship was more casual the guy could just say “OK, if you’re not that into me anymore it’s time to go our separate ways.” But if she has that ring and that contract, he’s stuck. She can unilaterally kill his sex life–because of some deep emotional issues she can’t even or won’t even articulate–and three choices. He can put up with it (although she’s insane if she thinks he’ll ever treat her the same way afterwards), he can dishonor himself by cheating on her or he can get an emotionally and financially devastating divorce.
Ain’t modern marriage grand?
I’m partly to blame here, but let’s not let this thread move off into a debate about sexual obligations in marriage. This is about condoms, and while some tangents can be permitted, let’s make sure contraception is front and center.
Fair enough, though I’m enjoying this discussion, Mythago. Feel free to e-mail if you want to continue.
Amusing side note: I had a boss who swore he was going to make millions off of condoms with sports logos on them. Imagine the Vikings…the Giants…the Pistons….
If the issue is serious enough where a man must train himself to orgasm with a condom on, the simplest solution is to have his female partner wear a female condom.
Most women I know have had to “train themselves” to have orgasms at all during sex, regardless of contraception/partner/position/whatever.
If you want to enjoy sex and enjoy it safely, it’s not a huge leap to commit some time to some self exploration. Isn’t masturbation supposed to be fun anyways?
ditto emily. that comment has suddenly made me realize something very obvious. if a man isn’t getting off from sex, he worries that something is wrong with him; if he isn’t getting off with a condom, he considers that reason enough to complain that he has to use one. meanwhile, if a woman isn’t getting off from sex, all too often she thinks that’s completely normal; sometimes she doesn’t even expect sex to be that FUN, and she thinks that’s normal.
i don’t want to say that this is true of all people. but it’s definitely common and i just realized how absurd that is.
Since when is sex limited to PIV?
To get back on topic (though I’d love to read and comment on a post about the idea of “rights” in a relationship), I think it would do our society a world of good in many different ways if we could divorce “sex” as a blanket category of activity from “sex” as PIV.
Then again, if there are men out there who can’t be convinced that PIV sex with a condom can be an acceptable alternative, I think they’ll also have a problem with the idea that non-PIV sex is not inferior.
Rats! I missed the whole “why your wife won’t have sex with you” tangent. But, just as a quick side note, my husband is also manic-depressive, and, through his bipolar support groups and my family support groups, I’ve found that lots of couples where one person is bipolar have sexual problems, either from the depression or from the medications that are needed to stabilize those moods. And that both bipolar men and bipolar women sometimes get that seventeen-month headache (without their spouses necessarily having treated them unusually badly in bed or otherwise). Anyone who wants to talk further with me about this can email me.
Back to condoms, can someone explain to me why it would be easier to learn to use a female condom than for a man to learn to have orgasm with a regular condom? Because it’s not really obvious to me that a female condom’s either necessarily going to be easier for a couple to use, or will necessarily result in better sensation, either for the man or for the woman. If you, personally, are happier using the female condom, and it’s working well for you and your partner, well, go you. But if you’re making a general recommendation to use female condoms rather than male ones, I’d like to know why.
I think it may be a hard thing to extrapolate the sex drives of those suffering any sort of illness to “too many women”.
As for the female condom, my sister and her partner tried it out for fun. Neither could handle it… because of the noise. She said it kept convulsing them in laughter; which was fun but not in a particularly sexy way. Of course, I’m sure it does work for some. YMMV and all that.
‘Course, we’re going to try it, also for fun. So perhaps in a few months I’ll be a convert. Stranger things have happened.
One more thing… men don’t like female condoms, either. Most of the time, when men don’t want to feel “baggage, ” it doesn’t matter is it’s on their penis or if it’s covering a vagina. They want to bareback, and neither is gonna cut it. I have yet to meet a man that honestly was interested in using a female condom over a male condom. For the most part, men use the “female” condom argument is an insincere one.
As for the earlier tangent- if some men don’t want to get married, DON’T. Nobody is asking you to, and you shouldn’t be forced to. Just don’t use that excuse to mislead people for your benefit.
Female condoms are recommended for women who aren’t using male condoms. There isn’t anything in that article saying that both kinds work equally well; apparently ‘effectiveness studies’ are not published.
Curiously my previous links are disabled. Please read this one more carefully. There have been studies addressing the general effectiveness of the female condom and there is little difference between the two.
Back to condoms, can someone explain to me why it would be easier to learn to use a female condom than for a man to learn to have orgasm with a regular condom? Because it’s not really obvious to me that a female condom’s either necessarily going to be easier for a couple to use, or will necessarily result in better sensation, either for the man or for the woman. If you, personally, are happier using the female condom, and it’s working well for you and your partner, well, go you. But if you’re making a general recommendation to use female condoms rather than male ones, I’d like to know why.
One does not know what the sensations will be until one tries it. Avoiding it certainly will not help. Your latter statement is a strawman. No one recommended using female condoms rather than male condoms. It was suggested that one could use them in cases where men cannot achieve orgasms with male condoms. Granted, the female condom’s effectiveness is such that it could be instead the male condom. Any side-effects of usage–noises, easy of use, expenses–would be no different than those associated with male condoms, so one could “commit some time to some self exploration” with the female condom.
The argument being made by women here is that they do not like them–and men do not either–therefore female condoms should not be used. Ironically, this is the same argument men use to justify not wearing a male condom. Other than preventing any lack of sensation women may experience as a result of wearing the female condom, and perhaps placing STD prevention solely on the shoulders of men, there is no tangible to reason for women not to use them. That is hardly sharing “the “burdens” of birth control, be they physical or financial.”
For the most part, men use the “female” condom argument is an insincere one.
I have used them, and frankly was not bothered any sounds. Extra lube helps to get rid of that problem. As for the bag feeling, it is hardly as distracting as wearing a male condom. However, in my experience women are not concerned with whether their partner is enjoying the sex–one becomes a living sex toy–though many do become angry and even feel insulted when a male does not achieve an orgasm.
Your latter statement is a strawman. No one recommended using female condoms rather than male condoms.
It’s not a straw man, but an honest reading of your posts, Toy Soldier. If you meant only that a couple should be willing to try a female condom if the guy was having trouble with a male condom, you should have said so more clearly in the first place. I read you as saying that if a guy was having trouble having an orgasm with a male condom, he should not try experimenting with learning how to improve his sensations with that variety, but rather his partner definitely should use a female condom.
so one could “commit some time to some self exploration” with the female condom.
Fine, the couple can “commit some time to some self exploration” with both varieties, and see which they can get better use out of first. I have no problem with a couple trying a female condom, I just have a problem with the idea that it’s an incredible ordeal for a guy to practice masturbating with a male condom. To me, having to practice a bit to figure out how you can come during intercourse seems normal, not some super burdensome bit of hard work. Not that there’s anything wrong with bypassing that particular bit of practice if the female condom works better. Even more so if you gave both of them a good try, and really were finding the male condom a lot more difficult to work with than the female one. Just that it’s a bit weird to me that masturbating should be such a huge burden.
However, in my experience women are not concerned with whether their partner is enjoying the sex–one becomes a living sex toy
Wow, your mileage totally varies from mine. My experience is that men generally enjoy sex.
I find it fascinating that the current point of debate here, on Hugo’s post about men taking responsibility for their own health and the health and well being of their partners, has devolved into a bunch of men saying “but why can’t sheeeeee just wear the condom.”
However, in my experience women are not concerned with whether their partner is enjoying the sex–one becomes a living sex toy
I’ll put the depth and breadth of my experience up against anyone’s. My mileage definitely varies on this.
I’ll agree with Hugo on that one. Maybe I’ve just been lucky in my partners, but most women I’ve been with–when they have been willing to have sex, mind you–have been pretty generous, giving lovers. Without taking it back to an area Hugo wants us to avoid, I find the problem can eventually become getting them to agree to sex at all (believe me, there were times I would’ve killed to be treated like “a living sex toy”).
On this male vs. female condom thing: I have no experience with the female condom, but I’d give it a whirl if my partner wanted. Is it asking too much that we just negotiate and compromise? There are ways of working these things out, up to and including the “your way tonight, my way tomorrow night” method.
I’m reminded of the line from “Bull Durham” that Kevin Costner’s character tells Tim Robbins, in a hilariously surly delivery: “Baseball is supposed to be fun. IT’S FUN, DAMMIT!” I think we need to keep the same attitude about sex.
Man, Hugo, I agree with you so much.
If a guy can’t function with a condom (like Glitch), Glitch, you should look into Viagra. I know sometimes young men recoil at the idea, but I used to hook up with this really hot guy who couldn’t keep it up in a condom, and it made me sad because I wanted him. Then my husband talked him into taking Viagra (geez, I hope this is appropriaite for this blog) and he could! We had tons of fun. Now he’s much happier. Before, he was always scared to take some girl home and then not be able to play, now he’s really confident.
I’ve tried the female condom with my husband, to experiment, but it wasn’t as tight as the male condom. They also aren’t as portable, and they are more cumbersome to put on. It is also harder to spot imperfections (a hole in a male condoms is obvious when you first slip it on, a hole in a female condom is invisible, because it comes stretched, it doesn’t stretch). I didn’t like, and for him it was MUCH worse than the regular condoms.
I think we should teach teens to use condoms on their FIRST time. That should be our goal. If they can use it on their first time, they’re set for a life of responsible decisions.
I utterly fail to grasp the mindset that would rather have a GF on a pill that depresses her libido rather than use a condom. Isn’t her libido part of the entire goal here? I mean, you’re not really pulling ahead if you can but she’s not interested, or so it seems to me.
Of course, that assumes that one is terribly worried about whether or not one’s GF actually wants to have sex with you or is just putting up with it. But if that’s the case, birth control choice is the least of your problems with women.
Is it asking too much that we just negotiate and compromise? There are ways of working these things out, up to and including the “your way tonight, my way tomorrow night” method.
Of course. I believe what people are reacting to is the undercurrent here suggesting that not only the burden of contraception, but the burden of any side-effects or difficulties, ought to fall on women.
in my experience women are not concerned with whether their partner is enjoying the sex–one becomes a living sex toy-
This certainly explains your approach to contraception.
“your way tonight, my way tomorrow”?
What do you mean, like, “condom today, pill tomorrow”?
I’m not sure it would be very effective…
I believe he meant something more like “condom tonight, sponge tomorrow”.
Seriously, this pro-condom stuff is just irresponsible. You’re promoting them because they fit in with a particular ideological view, rather than - you know - because they’re a good way of preventing pregnancy, which is what you should be thinking about when you give advice about contraceptives.
I’ve done the maths with the best ‘perfect use’ failure rates of 3% per year. If you use them as your only form of contraception you’re more likely than not going to make someone pregnant at some point in your life. You just shouldn’t be going around promoting them without even *mentioning* this. People who follow your advice are likely to be badly let down. That’s just a really dubious thing to do, but it’s what happens when you worry about ideology rather than efficacy.
The ‘real world’ failure rates are even worse. There have been figures quoted at about 15% per year - that’s awful. If couple of 16 year olds trust them they’ll likely be responsible for a pregnancy by the time they’re 20. That’s insane.
3% failure is still much better than nothing, and you haven’t mentioned the fact that they protect against STD’s, where other methods don’t. I could advice teens to go on the pill, but then what? If they start having sex at 16, they’ll be infertile from syphillis by the time they’re 20?
That would be a real failure.
There have been figures quoted at about 15% per year
Quoted by whom?
because they’re a good way of preventing pregnancy, which is what you should be thinking about when you give advice about contraceptives
I see you decided to skip the whole discussion about STDs prevention.
On the contraceptive end of things, the discussion doesn’t begin or end with failure rates. There are side effects, cost, ease of use, and potential side-effects to consider as well. Condoms are not the most effective form of birth control, but they’re cheap, available, safe, reversible and can be used by just about everybody.
This is slightly off-topic, but, y’know, I’d use about any type of contraception other than the female condom. I know women are supposed to be used to having all sorts of unnatural things shoved up our vaginas–I mean, what’s a vagina for?–but I’m…not. I’m just not. You see, a cold metal speculum betrayed and murdered my father, and now I’m quite picky about what goes up in there.
At any rate, Hub and I are in the situation of controlling birth for more than the reasons typically given. I’m an evil bipolar wife, you see, so of course I’m on medicines which do bad things in-utero. We aren’t prepared to have children at this stage in life, at any rate, but at the point in time when we will be–and we would like to have children, we’ve discussed–we’ll have to figure out whether to start with adoption or try a natural birth, which will include the risk of my going off medicine for a lengthy period of time.
The OP was a good read. I recently came out of the closet as a feminist amongst my friends, and was by and large disappointed in their reactions, so this was a much-needed refreshment. It was also nice to find useful information within the comments; we’re something of newbies at the whole “marriage” and “sex” thing, to a degree, and have had some issues with our own usage of the m-condom.
leederick:
Wait, what? Why shouldn’t people be using m-condoms? If you want a reasonable failure rate, multiple contraceptive forms should be used. Preferably, the condom should be one of those, as it is effective against STDs (as previously mentioned). Also, Hugo’s point, it’s one of the few, if not the only, contraceptives that men actually use themselves–an important factor for both men and women.
This is slightly off-topic, but, y’know, I’d use about any type of contraception other than the female condom.
With me it’s more that I’d use (if I needed to) just about any type of contraception other than the pill (side effects and the fact that I can’t remember to take any pill daily).
I’d give the female condom a try if I had any need of it (but at this point neither STDs nor birth control are an issue in my marriage).
If I seriously needed not to get pregnant, I’d want to use more than one contraception method at a time (and a condom could be a useful part of the mix).
Lynn Gazis-Sax:
Sounds reasonable. For myself, I’ve already gotten over the hurdle of taking pills daily, as I already have to do such for the most basic needs of health. It takes about a day and a half of missed medicine in the summer, or missing half a day’s meds during the winter for a noticable difference to manifest, so it’s just one of those unfortunate realities I’ve had to adjust to.
I don’t know what possible side-effects to expect from the pill personally. I took it as a kid (teenager) for acne, but I wasn’t sexually active then or really interested much in anyone, just mostly interested in surviving. The only side effect I noticed was gaining weight. If it had any effect on my libido, I would never had noticed in the overall libidolessness that is depressive illness in full-swing.
I don’t know what possible side-effects to expect from the pill personally.
Pdrydia, it really depends on which pill (or other hormonal BC, like the patch or the ring) you use, and who you are. You can have no side effects, or cramps, or heavier or lighter bleeding, or stronger or weaker mood swings, or more or less headaches, or more or less libido (or strengthed libido at different times than before,) or, or, or. Hormones are tricksy things, and what has no effect on one woman will have horrific side effects for another. Plus, the Pill as done by each company is slightly different, so just because one version has huge side effects doesn’t mean that another version will as well.
For myself, I’ve already gotten over the hurdle of taking pills daily, as I already have to do such for the most basic needs of health.
Yeah, my husband’s the same way. If there were a male pill and a female pill, we’d definitely want to give him the pill taking task. :-) One thing about having a medically compliant “evil bipolar” spouse is that he has gotten really good at remembering to take pills.
I don’t know what possible side-effects to expect from the pill personally.
For me it was extra bleeding. This one actually depends a lot on which pill you use (as Technocracygirl says), as well as who you are. So, for some women who get such side effects, it may be worth getting a different pill prescription. In my case, though, I already (sorry, guys, close your eyes if TMI) get really heavy bleeding, so any more bleeding at all just wasn’t a tolerable side effect for me.
Incidentally, the blog The Well-Timed Period is a great resource for information about the Pill and other hormonal contraceptives.
Lynn, I have similar difficulties with my birth control, the ring. My fiance (who over the years has gotten very good at telling when my period is about to arrive, as that’s when I get highly emotional) was saying that he thought my mood swings might be a little strong. I pointed out that, while, yes, the Pill gives me no mood swings, the Ring’s mood swings are really no bigger than my normal, non-artifical-hormonally-based mood swings. And since the Ring only needs to be dealt with twice a month as opposed to the daily Pill, I am all over the Ring.
I find it amusing that people sometimes think “Oh, no, there are side effects!” without realizing that sans artifical hormones, there are still side effects.
Why, thank you for the website. :] I’ll keep the advice in mind!
Chief, you’re disgusting. And I know the only reason you don’t rape your wife is because it’d be ‘dishonoring yourself,’ not out of actual concern for her.
Lorelei, given that Chief’s wife is deceased, it’s more than a little rude to speculate on their relationship.
If any of you have had problems with the Pill in terms of side effects, I would recommend Ortho Tri-Cyclen Lo. It’s a fairly new perscription of the Pill, and contains low doses of hormones as opposed to most other Pill perscriptions (such as the standard Ortho Tri-Cyclen pills). Best of all, I haven’t experienced ONE bad side effect while on it. No weight gain. No mood swings. No bleeding between periods. It might not be for everyone, of course. But if you’ve had problems with other Pill with higher doses of hormones, this one might treat your body better.
btw - themonkey no longer has a condom problem. :-)
btw - themonkey no longer has a condom problem. :-)
Gaudeamus igitur juvenes dum sumus.
Rejoice we did indeed.
Hugo, I am shocked that you made no response to Lorelei’s blatant ad hominem: “Chief, you’re disgusting. And I know the only reason you don’t rape your wife is because it’d be ‘dishonoring yourself,’ not out of actual concern for her.” Are you really willing to allow such a disgusting, low-brow, pathetic comment slide just because it was made against a male?
“However, in my experience women are not concerned with whether their partner is enjoying the sex–one becomes a living sex toy–though many do become angry and even feel insulted when a male does not achieve an orgasm.”
You’ve been with the wrong woman, TS. The comments about female condoms were more negative from the men than women overall, at least in the clinic I volunteered at.
Congrats, Chief. I was wondering if we could get to that old MRA standby, the “all those women out there who want to trap good men by getting pregnant” trope. We got there within ten comments, which is right on target.
Sigh.
This really creeps me out, Hugo.
Is it ideologically incorrect to ever suggest that any woman anywhere would ever do a bad thing? Given a large enough sample, every act imaginable will be done by somebody.
Trust everybody, but cut the cards.
What’s wrong about it is that a guy made that comment, clearly thinking that a male is so valuable a commodity for a woman, that she would get PREGNANT on purpose. Pregnant! Man, pregnant is a lot. Nine months of vomiting, peeing at dishours, risking your health, your job, loosing teeth, loosing hair, loosing money, and generally looking not so fierce; and then a lifetime of responsibility. All this because MAYBE you’ll get a spouse out of it.
You really would have to damage yourself and your chances in life to pull this off, and then it mi