I read a lotta blogs, and one I check in on from time to time is Amber’s. And a few weeks ago, she wrote a very brief, one-sentence post that brought me up short:
The deadpan flirtatiousness of certain married male bloggers is baffling to me.
Now, I was pretty damn certain Amber wasn’t thinking of me. I don’t know to whom she was referring, actually. But it made me reflect a bit about my past, about marriage, about neediness, and about unlearning flirtatiousness.
From early adolescence on, I was a student of flirting. I remember having the word defined for me in eighth grade by a girl named Jenny Nicholson. We sat together in math class, and I was a bit infatuated by her, a mild crush that was unreciprocated. But we chatted a lot, and one day she smiled and asked, in response to something I had said that I can’t remember, “Hugo are you flirting with me?” I said “no”, but obviously looked confused long enough for Jenny to throw out a definition: “It’s when you kinda like someone but don’t want to say it.”
I think I grunted out an “oh”, and left it at that.
I went home and asked my Mom about flirting. She gave me a more thorough definition, which I seem to remember as “Showing subtle romantic interest.” I also looked it up in a dictionary or two, and began to get the picture.
My mid-adolescent attempts at conscious flirting began not long thereafter, and they were predictably excruciatingly obvious, puerile, and unsuccessful. But my interest in girls was strong enough to help me overcome rejection after rejection, so I kept practicing what I thought of as my “technique.” I watched two of my older teenage male cousins, young men in college whose bodies were hard and chiseled and whose “patter” was smooth and (judging from their large number of girlfriends) successful. I watched their hand gestures, listened to their voices, studied their apparent effortlessness. Slowly, as my own body matured and changed, my confidence began to increase.
Bottom line, I spent years learning how to flirt. I suppose I only got good at it around the time I stopped consciously thinking about what I was doing and simply let myself “do what came naturally.” And for years and years, I did a hell of a lot of flirting. I flirted in and out of both of the disastrous marriages I had in my twenties. I found that my need for validation was stronger than any commitment I had made to any one particular woman. Even when I was physically faithful, I still loved the “intrigues” that had become second nature to me.
It was only in my early thirties, when I underwent my spiritual conversion, that I became willing to rethink my own flirtatiousness. Doing a written inventory of my romantic and sexual history, I realized that from 13 to 31 I had devoted a colossal amount of time and energy to flirting. The goal was rarely sex — the goal was validation of my own desirability. I was a first-rate narcissist, always eager to “stir the pot” to see if I could arouse a spark of interest in the various women I met in my life. It never mattered if I was single or attached, and I didn’t much care if these women were available or not. My ego needed feeding, and flirting was the best damn way I knew to get it fed. If the “intriguing” led to a short-term relationship or brief encounter, so much the better — but that was just icing on the cake. The “cake” in these instances was the knowledge that I was wanted. And knowing that I was desirable was the ultimate payoff.
I wrote last year about my 1998 “experiment with celibacy.” Not only did I not have sex or date, but for the first time since early adolescence, I consciously refrained from flirtations and intrigues. Cutting off that source of validation was extremely painful. I felt panicky and anxious. I was forced to do a lot of praying. And God was faithful. He brought me that sense of well-being that I needed so badly, that I had wanted so badly. My promiscuity and my addictive flirtatiousness had been all about filling a hole inside of me that only He could fill. But His grace could only fill that hole once I had made the decision to give up this habit that had sustained me and driven me for so long.
It’s been nearly nine years since that experience. And of course, I’m married once more, in a relationship that is deeper, richer, more challenging and more fulfilling than I have ever known. And finally, in this marriage, I can say that not flirting is truly second nature for me now. I still remember all of my old tricks, mind you. Even now, I often pause and examine my own words and actions to make sure that nothing I am doing or saying with any of the women in my life rises to the level of flirtation or intrigue. I’m gradually growing less hyper-vigilant as I learn to relax into my own skin. I’ve finally learned to stop using other people in order to feed that insatiable ego. And I’m finally in a marriage where all of those sparks, all of that heat, all of that “intrigue” is directed towards my spouse and my spouse alone.
Flirtation, particularly when we are married or in committed relationship, brings us dangerously close to one of the most pernicious sins of all. No, I don’t mean adultery. I mean the sin of using another human being to soothe our own anxiety, to feed our ravenous ego. Sending out “mixed messages” that arouse interest, deliberately fishing about to see if we can get a little “stroking” — this is toxic, manipulative, adolescent. I did it for nearly twenty years. It took several years more of hard work to break myself of the habit. Even now, I remain vigilant, knowing that it would be false pride to claim that I am forevermore immune from the temptation to soothe myself this way.
In my blog presence as in my “real world” life, I try and make it very clear that I am safe, romantically unavailable, happily married. I do this to honor my wife, of course, but there’s more to it than that. The other women in my life, be they colleagues, friends, or students don’t need me trying to pry out some sort of response from them. To put it vulgarly, using people sucks.
As it’s clear to regular readers, I’m spending a lot of time these days thinking about getting older. 40 is just around the corner. And of course, there’s a little nagging voice that says “Hugo, whatever looks you’ve had are fading. Do you think you can still “pull” (as the English say) as you used to?” And it’s my job these days to quiet that voice and not let that ugly, poisonous, neediness back into my life.
When that voice comes into my head, I remind myself that my real validation comes from the truth that — just like every other creature on this planet — I’m God’s beloved favorite. That’s true whether I’m lean or soft, wrinkled or smooth, handsome or homely, 29, 39, or 59.
And my wife, bless her, thinks I’m hot. The chinchillas just want to know if I have their shredded wheat treats, and it’s time to fetch those for them.
Hi Hugo
I just followed the link to your previous post on celibacy, and also to the poem you posted, Lady Ki No Washika’s “No” (excellent short poem choice BTW). Anyway at the bottom of that post there there are lots of spam porn links - not sure if you’d just left them up for irony or didn’t know they were there…
OK - back to your post on flirting. It’s an interesting one because the defintion of ‘flirting’ definitely varies from person to person, and, dare I say it, maybe between genders.
Interesting how ‘connection’ gets sexualised. Your defintion of ‘flirting’ - signs of romantic interest - is the norm. I’ve also had a year of deliberately chosen celibacy (at university) - and it caused me to examine my own behaviour re; flirting. Actually I realised that often, simply talking to someone in a real way, or gently ribbing them, is seen as flirting and hence as romantic interest - when it really isn’t, on my part. Some guys think ANY signal of friendliness is that type of flirting, let alone normal human friendship (it’s similar to the sorts of men who are in the “smile!” to a stranger brigade.) This enforced hypervigilance seems sad. Plus, can’t people trust themselves not to go further than firting? Especially when the person they are ‘flirting’ with might not see it as such?
This an area where male privilege works overtime. You can decide ‘not’ to flirt and that’s a conscious decision. When women decide ‘not’ to flirt, it often makes NO difference in some men’s minds - we talk to them, we’re flirting, whatever we say…
‘connection’ is a beautiful word BTW - I take it in the EM Forster sense, and believe it doesn’t always mean sexual connection- same with ‘attraction’ - even if elements of sexual attraction are there, doesn’t mean I want to have sex - just that a human connection is sought.
I was wondering, if by giving up ‘flirting’ you were more able, in a way, to have your eyes opened to ‘other’ sorts of connection with people of all genders; or if you felt that you had to ‘close off’ that capacity to some extent in case it became sexual?
Kate:
Agreed. I learned to get over my shyness, in university, by learning how to become genuinely interested in people. Listening, asking questions, learning more about them. And oh-so-frequently this is intepreted by men as flirting. It’s irritating, and makes me nervous about being friendly to men, because I don’t want to be misinterpreted, and then blamed for that misinterpretation. It’s almost as though we don’t have a pattern for male-female friendship with no sexual interest.
Kate:
This an area where male privilege works overtime. You can decide ‘not’ to flirt and that’s a conscious decision. When women decide ‘not’ to flirt, it often makes NO difference in some men’s minds - we talk to them, we’re flirting, whatever we say…
Oh please! I can’t count the number of times I’ve asked a woman simple and innocent question and gotten a very cold shoulder in response. Everything from, “Do you have the time?” to “Which way is north?” to “Am I on the local or express?” to “Which floor?” is treated as some sort of lame attempt at a come on. It doesn’t matter where or what time of day, you ask a question of a woman, and they presume you must be interested in them, and they are kind enough to give you a stare and a curt answer so you know just how undesirable you are.
This sort of thing works both ways.
Actually, now that I think about it, maybe this is a chicken/egg scenario. Women think guy always assume women to be flirting when they are just acting naturally. Women react by giving cold shoulders and glares. Men pick up on this.
Man talks to woman. Woman is acting naturally. Man thinks, “Wow. She seems really friendly. I bet she likes me.” Woman gets offended because man expresses interest. Woman starts giving cold shoulders and glares. Man wonders what the hell just happened.
Glitch, you’re right about it being chicken & egg. Personally, I’m not offended if, say, someone makes a pass or makes it obvious they think you like them etc. It’s a misunderstanding, which isn’t offensive in itself.
It only becomes offensive when that person won’t take a no for an answer, or still insists that you were the one flirting.
Thinking more about it, it’s not just a man/woman thing either.
Heh. There’s flirting, and then there’s *flirting*.
Or so it always seemed to me. My spouse used to do it a lot more early in our marriage, particularly with mutual friends, and I thought it absolutely charming to watch, though I was too hung up, ever, to do it myself. Which was too bad, because then I think he felt guilty about doing it, even though I assured him of my vicarious pleasure, watching him. But in his case, it seemed more about making the other person feel attractive, as opposed to filling some need in himself. And it was a *game*.
I talked to one of the mutual friends about this once (she’s my best girlfriend) and she too explained the pleasure of this; but only if both parties understood that nothing, ever, was to come of it.
So while I understand why some people can’t or won’t do it, I don’t think it’s intrinsically bad.
I talked to one of the mutual friends about this once (she’s my best girlfriend) and she too explained the pleasure of this; but only if both parties understood that nothing, ever, was to come of it
And that’s rarer than we think. And it’s not just what the other party thinks — it’s what everyone else sees and thinks.
Precisely.
The inspiration for my post is also an academic. For a variety of reasons, I doubt he’s flirty in person, but when you’re a guy in a geeky discipline who probably spends more time socializing online than off, understatedly reciprocating the attentions of blog-groupies is apparently too tempting to resist.
He also blogs about his family (and presumably they read his blog), which makes the whole thing even more baffling; these temporary fixations on particular female bloggers are quite obvious. I’ve felt vaguely embarrassed for his wife and daughter. After reading your post, I feel for the woman bloggers as well; they are being ill-used.
Thanks, Amber; I’m embarrassed for him, whoever he is.
Good food for thought. I have nothing to add, except the observation that you are the *least* flirtatious male professor I have ever had. It definitely contributed to how comfortable I felt in your class.
Wow, binks. Thanks for that affirmation. Oh, and Kate, I haven’t ignored your question. I’ll get to it later.
I evidently flirt more in real life than I intend to. Online I’m much more conscious of it and consequently much more conscientious about it. I agree with you, Hugo, that to the extent I’ve engaged in it it’s been wonderfully corrective to my self-image. Part of the trick, though, is to understand the difference between validation (I’m actually more attractive than I imagined) with reassurance (”Tell me I haven’t lost ‘it’” Whatever “it” is supposed to be.)
As for your “fading looks.” What’s with that anyway? Yeah, over time we may no longer turn *teenager’s* heads but, as you’ve said elsewhere, that’s not a bad thing. To the extent you were handsome to your contemporaries before, and I get the impression you were, you’ll remain attractive to your contemporaries. If instead your contemporaries stop finding you attractive (more common for women than men, I think) then as long as you haven’t let yourself fall apart then it’s pretty clearly their problem, not yours.
Fascinating topic, Hugo.
figleaf
We all need a certain amount of validation, figleaf, I’d agree –my darling wife gives me that in countless ways. I’m opposed to using people to feed my ego; when my wife says “You’re still so gorgeous to me”, it makes me very happy. But I don’t manipulate her into saying it!
Flirting is as interesting to me as discovering that other single men are suddenly taking interest in me when I’m with someone else already. (Seriously: I don’t know what’s up with that - the guy friends I’ve asked say it’s because my current relationship makes me seem more confident and thus more attractive. Or something like that.)
As for flirting, I never had carved out much of a definition to know when I was doing it or not. It wasn’t till a few weeks ago where I was talking with another guy friend that he told me he liked how I flirt. My reaction was along the lines of, “Um, I don’t flirt.” “Well, you just did with me,” he said. “Trust me, you flirt.” I don’t consider flirting a “validation of my own desirability,” or to show sexual interest. Then again, I still haven’t clearly defined flirting to myself, which I’m sure would help a great deal!
Hugo,
I very much respect your thoughts and your work, and I appreciated this post. I honestly have to say that I was a bit suprised by it however, and mostly because some of the pictures you have posted of yourself. Now let me just say first off that I personally do not have big feelings against flirting. I have to admit however that several of the shirtless pictures you post of yourself seem a little flirty. You are a physically fit and attractive person, and I kind of always wondered if there was not some slight teasing underlying those pictures being on the site. Please let me know otherwise, as I am sure you will. I am not trying to incriminate you in any way, I guess your post just kind of opened up the chance for me to wonder about it.
-Dana
Gosh, Dana, that wasn’t my intent. I’ll go through my old Typepad albums that I haven’t moved over to Flick and reassess them. As I’ve blogged about before, I run shirtless if the temperature is over 50 degrees fahrenheit — and running is very, very important to me. Thus any picture of me doing something I love very much is very likely to be of me shirtless.
For future marathons and the like, I’ll crop the photos in a way that doesn’t show as much skin.
RG, I haven’t had much trouble defining flirting as an adult, but that’s because I gave a lot of thought to it for years and years. I realize that the line between friendliness and flirting may not always be clear to everyone, and may be defined differently by different folks.
Thanks for the interesting post. Flirting in the way you described does appear to be more about the flirter(?) seeking to fill that void inside him/herself, and it definitely uses the flirtee(?).
That said, I’ve always advocated more flirting, not less. By flirting, I mean actions/speech that are designed to flatter the target of the flirtation in a way that feels good to him/her. It should never be about the person flirting. Flirting need not be anything more than a compliment; flirting doesn’t have to go farther than that.
Hey Hugo: Interesting read.
My husband seems to be like you once were, needing validation from out there … checking out women etc. I don’t mind if he checks them out but it is the fact that I can walk away from him and he doesn’t even notice. I have done it. At home we are a couple but once in public, it is like I am not there, and when I go to talk to him .. he is distracted. He will continually seek out certain people, position himself so he has a good vantage point. It’s different…. I like going out and travelling and feeling like we are enjoying things as a couple but .. he is not present. I know he would never do anything, I do trust him. I love him, don’t nag him, if he needs validation I will do my best to show him he is worthy but what I question is …………. if he doesn’t love himself can he really love me? is this something that you think you could have tackled (stopped) while married? did you enjoy the times you spent with your spouse (out doing things) when you were seeking validation, or was it just opportunities to feed your ego?
The problem is he doesn’t think he does it, he kind of thinks it is my problem. Well I guess it is … is it worth spending my life with someone that doesn’t want to be present????????
Hugo, love the article. I was married to a narcissist, total time with him 2 & 1/2 years. Each time he ended it he said I was too possessive & jealous. He ended it 5 times. We were tremendously in love. Both of us.. but he had the same problem with flirting you did. He has never spent time alone, I was his 3rd marriage.
He ended it for good this time, told me that I will never change & have a real problem.
The fact is I am not a jealous person. I wasn’t before him & I will not be afterwards. I was not jealous with him either. But I was hurt often by his staring at women, that needing to be affirmed. I loved him, never would have left him, but in the end he didn’t get it. He cut off a beautiful marriage because he felt he didn’t have a problem. What i have just read in your post is wonderful. I too found The Lord when I was 30. I have spent plenty of time single & humbled. He has not. Your taking time to reflect & dig inside yourself is so necessary in our growing up.. whatever the age… I pray that he can do this. I believe he will always be unhappy until he can dig within himself & cut off his need for outside affirmations. He had such love from me, in our marriage but in the end it was more important to deny this need he has & to blame me for his own failing to have looked within. I commend you on your growth & the depth you now portray & share even on here is worth so much more than the thousands of cudos you would have gotten had you not stopped. I pray my ex husband will do the same. God Bless you & for your story. I hope it is posted in many other places…