It appears as of this morning that yesterday’s horrific shooting at Virginia Tech began with a young man killing his girlfriend before moving on to massacre dozens of fellow students and at least one faculty member. As has often been the case in the past, a mass shooting seems clearly linked to one man’s colossal rage at an individual woman or women. There’s a long and evolving discussion of many aspects of this event at Feministe. Here’s the post I wrote after last year’s awful Amish school shooting; as the facts unfold about what happened in Blacksburg, these words may or may not prove relevant once again:
As a pro-feminist gender studies prof, if there’s one topic that depresses me more than almost any other, it’s just how widespread male rage at women seems to be in our culture…We live in a culture where rape remains ubiquitous; where sexual harassment is a nearly-universal experience for many women in the workplace; where pornography that features the narrative of teenage girls being raped, overpowered or even murdered is ever more available and popular. I don’t know what specific factors inspired these two three shootings, but I do know that they are, in some as of yet inexplicable way, emblematic of a larger cultural problem…
The shooter has been identified as a young Korean-American man, Cho Seung-Hui. My first thought upon hearing that the killer had been described as “Asian” was “Damn, why couldn’t it have been a white boy?” Please understand, I don’t think the race of the shooter played a vital role in these tragic events. If he had been white, the horror of what happened would be no less (and no greater.) But I teach at a campus where over a third of our students are Asian or Asian-American. Pasadena City College awards more AA degrees to Asians than any other junior college in the United States. And I am deeply concerned about the possibility of anti-Asian backlash, particularly in those areas (and on those campuses) where Asians constitute more of a minority than they do here in the San Gabriel Valley.
In my men and masculinity class (I’ll be teaching it again in the fall after a two-year hiatus), we spend quite a bit of time talking about race. We talk about deeply-held stereotypes about men of various ethnic backgrounds (I’ll bet my readers can think of a few in a matter of seconds.) And over and over again, I’ve listened to the anguish of more than a few Asian male students. We live in a white-dominated culture that exaggerates the athletic and erotic capabilities of black males at the same instant that it denigrates those same possibilities within Asian men. We know the nasty stereotypes: Asian men are invariably near-sighted; always slight of build and small of penis; good at science and math; emotionally inarticulate (even more so than white men); inscrutable. These painful, cruel, inaccurate assumptions do real damage.
One other stereotype that may have a very small bit of truth within it is one I hear repeated quite a bit on my campus: young Asian men, particularly from competitive Korean and Chinese families, may be under tremendous pressure not only to do very well academically but also to keep virtually all emotion repressed. The last time I taught my men and masculinity class, a young Chinese-American fella said something like this:
Prof. Hugo, you ever wonder why Asian guys like video and role-playing games more than anyone else? It’s because black, white, and Hispanic guys get to express their anger so much more than we do. We’re supposed to not get angry. We’re not given the same outlets, not encouraged to play sports as much. So we — I — like video games. And I really like the violent ones.
This led to heated discussion — there were a number of Asian-American men and women in the room, and some vehemently disagreed with what their classmate was saying. Others vigorously supported him.
It’s obvious from the history of mass shootings that most killers — the Dylan Klebolds, the Marc Lepines — have been white males. And we almost never attribute their murderousness to their whiteness. We focus on their misogyny, their alienation, their easy access to guns. But whether or not there is any truth to the stereotype that young Asian men are often under particularly great familial and cultural pressure to succeed (and to do so without expressing any rage or frustration), I am very worried about the legacy of Cho Seung-Hui. I am worried that on many campuses — particularly those where Asians are a very small minority — other students will begin to shun their Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese male classmates. I can hear the jokes now, the ones that have an ugly edge to them: “Hey ____, did you bring your gun to class today?”
I saw what was done to many of my Muslim students after 9/11. And though what happened yesterday was no 9/11, these murders in Virginia are receiving an extraordinary amount of attention. “The worst mass shooting in American history” has a terrible resonance to it, and it will be all most of us talk about for the next few days. For some within our society, the temptation to displace some of their own feelings of anger, sadness, and powerlessness onto others will be overwhelming. And I am deeply worried for my students who share the shooter’s ethnic heritage and outer appearance. And though it wouldn’t change anything in the long run, I am wishing this morning that the trigger had been pulled by a good ol’ WASP boy named Billy Bob Johnson rather than by the late Cho Seung-Hui.
UPDATE: Please don’t devote your comments to a discussion of how white men are actually as victimized by stereotypes as men of other ethnic groups. If I were to do this post over, I would have titled it Wishing Cho Seung-Hui had been William Robert Johnson IV, in order to avoid the sense that I was stereotyping working-class white southern men. I’ve read through a lot of Colombine coverage (most folks are comparing this event chiefly to Colombine); I haven’t found many folks talking about how whiteness played a part in what Harris and Klebold did. I’m already seeing some anti-Asian commentary showing up in my comments section and elsewhere.
Folks, emotions are raw. Be kind, be judicious, and take a second before hitting the “publish” button. I’ll be moderating.
UPDATE II: I just checked my stats. At 2:10PM PDT, I already have more unique visitors and hits than I have had on any single day since I started this blog. Welcome, all of those of you who typed Cho Seung-Hui into a search engine.
UPDATE III: I’m done arguing in the comments section, at least for today. I just did a lengthy phone interview with Newsweek, and my comments may appear in a story there in the next couple of days. I’ve got a gym to hit and papers to grade…
“My first thought upon hearing that the killer had been described as “Asian” was “Damn, why couldn’t it have been a white boy?”
I hear you, Hugo. The first thing my mom said to me when I came downstairs this morning was, “Did you hear who did those shootings? A foreigner!” She went on to complain about how everyone whose been “messing up our country” is foreign. (If they complain about illegal immigration - a favorite dinnertime topic - one more time, I think I am going to explode.) Of course, the man who shot the students could have been American. It’s just that my parents think that anyone who isn’t white isn’t American. They can be so embarrassing sometimes. I am reluctant to repeat their racist words in public because their view of the world can be so skewed, especially when it comes to race. The only thing I said in response was that the guys who shot students at Colombine were white. Then I went upstairs to eat my waffles because arguing with them goes nowhere.
Then I read this. I now completely understand where you were coming from in terms of race and the shootings.
Interestingly, I read some right-wing blogs following the incident and it seemed like a lot of wheels were turning in their minds - they were predicting (ok, it really sounded like hoping) that the “Asian” murderer would turn out to be a Muslim of Asian descent trained by Al Qaeda so that America would finally wake up to the danger. I guess this just goes to show that no race has a monopoly on people snapping (for whatever reason) and doing terrible things; still, I do hope the race and nationality of this young man is not used as fuel for bigots (as though they need fuel).
Excellent post. I thought exactly the same thing when I read that the shooter was a Korean “resident.” I also worry about how the right-wingers are going to use this as an argument for even stricter immigration laws.
Your post brings up the subject of race, why it matters, although the world would be a better place if it didn’t, while remaining sensitive to the awful event that took place.
I agree with you, I have just graduated from a community college in West Virginia, West Virginia University Parkersburg, and being 50 years old I spent a lot of time watching the kids going to this school. Most of the kids do not see color or race like their parents, but they still have to deal with what the parents say. So do I from my partener. He is 58 and is always sterotyping people. If we could only forget about peoples nationality and see the person. Period. Maybe the next generation things will be better for women and people of color.
Thank you.
“And though it wouldn’t change anything in the long run, I am wishing this morning that the trigger had been pulled by a good ol’ WASP boy named Billy Bob Johnson rather than by the late Cho Seung-Hui. ”
Right on, Professor, . . . because everyone knows that “good ol’ WASP boy[s] named Billy Bob Johnson” are never victims of stereotyping. Right?
WTF?!?
32 are dead because of a trigger-happy madman (about 15 miles away from me, no less), 32 families destroyed, and you are worried about the consequences of the asian community?
Glad you have that much respect for college students everywhere. I can see it in your mind, a jock walking up to a nerd, “Hey, you’re asian! I read on the internet that killer was asian. Get ‘um, boys!” Then the nerd gets beat up.
1) As far as i know, asian-americans are not exactly known to be terrorists or religious zealots.
2) This was not a group of asians or an asian organization, just a solo PERSON.
3) If the shooter was white, would you be asking all your white students where their guns are? I can’t believe you teach.
Yes, this world is full of ignorant assholes, many of whom are white, but if all us whites are viewed as hateful jerks who look for reasons to pick a fight (or go to war) then you are just as racist.
And to the poster above, about us predicting, even “hoping” (can’t believe he used that word) that the killer was Muslim, in my research this morning I found that he wrote in red ink “Ismail’s Ax” (or Ismail Ax, as some sites report) on his arm and left a rambling note about the “rich kids” and “charlatans”. Looking up Ismail I find a lot of people discussing it. Apparently (I confess I don’t know much about the eastern religions) in Islam, Ismail took up an ax to destroy many false prophets of gold and wood. Maybe this is an insight into his mind and what he THOUGHT he was doing. Its not my fault stupid people mix up Muslims and Islamics, or maybe you just did.
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go slap around all my asian friends and make them feel like nothing… after all, I’m a white male college student.
In addition to the race of the Cho Seung-Hui being fuel for racism, the victims were outstanding citizens and distinct heritage. See link below:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/popup?id=3048216
This will set off dormant abhorrence towards all Asians from different venue points (i.e. Religions, Academics and most Ethnic heritages).
It will always be a mark that will trigger non-Asian people to be cautious or aloof towards Asians.
This effect is still true when it comes down to Middle Eastern folks, after 9/11 occurred.
With all the media attention, and as it will always be, this trait (dormant abhorrence) will only be reinforced.
And to the poster above, about us predicting, even “hoping” (can’t believe he used that word)
The early impression I got from a few far right-wing blogs that I read was a near-gleeful level of anticipation and speculation that the murderer, described as generically “Asian”, was specifically a Pakistani Muslim, and that the left-wing biased mainstream media was deliberately concealing his ethnicity and religion at the behest of powerful forces such as CIAR. The writer did indeed appear to be “hoping” that his theory about the murderer was in fact correct. Granted, I may have been reading some fringe sources.
Its not my fault stupid people mix up Muslims and Islamics, or maybe you just did.
OK, why don’t you enlighten this “stupid person” as to the difference between Muslims and Islamics?
My thoughts were the same as yours. I am a white female, but my brother is from S.Korea , we adopted him as an infant. He is currently a college student at a prominent TECH school and since hearing the news yesterday I have been unable to stop watching news and I do fear any type of backlash that may occur against Asians.
The news continually points out the gunman’s ethnicity and I dont recall in previous mass shootings the shooter’s race being repeated over and over.
I have visited a few blogs myself before coming upon this one, and already there are derogatory and ignorant (obviously) statements towards the Asian race as a whole.
Im currently a college student myself, my major is psychology and the issues of racism and prejudice have always bothered me.
I hope that the outcome of this tragedy may shed some light on the issues that this society has , yet seemingly ignores! The “disturbing letter ” that he left with list of greivances - are not uncommon. Somewhere in our U.S. history morality and values started to disappear. I can only say that my prayers are with everyone affected now and in the aftermath of this tragedy.
A quick response to Grubenil …. i am a white female college student, and I too had the same hope that it was a white male responsible for the shootings. We live in a society dominated by WHITE people, where minorities that we have historically “punished” throughout our history - live and work daily. You obviously din’t fully read Mr.Hugo’s entry, to be so “offended” by what was written is ridiculous. Nobody has denied that this is a horrible tragedy, but the aftermath of this may cause racism to raise. To this day , after 9/11 , muslims are sterotyped and often herassed. After years of enslaving african americans, there are still a large number of hate crimes and hate groups active in the U.S. We live in a white mans world - like it or not , it may sound ignorant but it is unfortunately true - minorities still struggle to gain equality with Whites. Maybe you are not ignorant adn will not the one to herass any minorities but you are ignorant to think that comments and problems would NOT occur after this.
My first thought after learning the shooter was an Asian man was about the coincidental timing to this weekend’s rebroadcast of “The Infinite Mind.” The show talked about the issues that many immigrants face when in need of mental health care, and started out talking about the extreme stigma still attached for Asians.
How sad that life situations can seem so overwhelming, and yet it seems impossible (or deathly embarrassing) to get some counsel.
The irony is that at least two of his victims, Henry Lee and Mary Reed, were Asian-American as well. I wonder if their accomplishments and lost promise are going to be taken as “typically Asian” in the same way that Cho Seung-Hui’s crime probably will be.
Tyler D: Sorry, I meant mix up Muslims and Islamics with asians, which I guess I didnt see “Muslim of asian descent” in your post. Rereading your post, I think I took it wrong the first time :P. My only assumption about the mesage boards you saw is that people can say anything they want online, with little thought about the consequences. Any drunken redneck can get on and post his opinion, I have seen some random stupid things written in the message boards as well.
Carolyn: The last thing on my mind when I heard about the shooter this morning was his race. Sure, I was surprised to see a picture of an asian, but if it had been a white kid and I had gotten onto blogs saying “Man, I can’t believe it was a southern white kid… I wish the shooter had been asian or black,” I would have pages and pages of comments about how I’m a bigot and a hateful human being. I just think Mr. Hugo could have gotten his point across in a better way, especially without using sterotypes of us southern kids like “good ol’ boy Billy Bob Johnson.”
I do hope that no innocent people are harmed by rednecks reacting to this one person’s act.
Grubenil, my bad. “Bill Johnson” would have worked without the “Billy Bob.” I stand by the larger point: white men who do these things don’t have their murderousness connected to their whiteness.
I grieve with VA Tech. But I come from a long line of UVA Cavs, and my stereotype of Hokies as being a little less cultured than those who attend Mr. Jefferson’s academical college in Charlottesville… it snuck in. If it detracted from a serious post, that’s my fault. And this is not the time to rib a rival, of course, which makes it more unfortunate. Mea culpa.
Today, we’re all Hokies.
Just another reason to keep the gooks out of my country. you stupid left wing libs,can’t you see whats going on? did you here the stupid mayor of chicago? it’s ok for him to have cops as body-guards with guns,but wants to take mine away-NEVER!
Professor Schwyzer, I think it was actually my comment about your stereotyping that you are responding to.
I appreciate the mea culpa, but I can’t automatically agree with your claim that white men who do these things don’t have their murderousness connected to their whiteness.
Five minutes of googling turned up this and this
Here’s a sample from the first article:
“In case you hadn’t noticed, ‘here’ is about the only place these kinds of things do happen. Oh sure, there is plenty of violence in urban communities and schools. But mass murder; wholesale slaughter; take-a-gun-and-see-how-many-you can-kill kinda craziness seems made for those safe places: the white suburbs or rural communities.
And yet once again, we hear the FBI insist there is no ‘profile’ of a school shooter. Come again? White boy after white boy after white boy, with very few exceptions to that rule (and none in the mass shooting category), decides to use their classmates for target practice, and yet there is no profile? Imagine if all these killers had been black: would we still hesitate to put a racial face on the perpetrators? Doubtful.In case you hadn’t noticed, ‘here’ is about the only place these kinds of things do happen. Oh sure, there is plenty of violence in urban communities and schools.”
I might also gently suggest that your reflexive desire to pin it on “Billy Bob” arose at least partly because you think of this kind of crime as “white” (or WASP) and “male.”
In any event, I will be *hugely* surprised if the number of people who want to connect this crime with Cho’s “Asian-ness” is any greater than the number of people who want to connect such crimes with “whiteness” — and far less than those who want to connect these crimes with “maleness” in general.
I stand by the larger point: white men who do these things don’t have their murderousness connected to their whiteness.
Really, Hugo? Seems like you’d find it real easy to believe it of a southern white man. Or is it not the “whiteness” but the “Southernness?”
For all the criticism of the “right-wing blogs” who were “hoping” it was a Muslim, it sounds like the same song - just changing the words a little.
I guess, though, that it is universal both left and right to hope that those who commit an atrocity are of a group we - at least secretly - despise and hold in contempt; hoping that what they do matches up to one’s prejudices of what they are.
So, let me ask you a question here, and a damned tough one for you, but I find your choice of words very telling: How much of your hoping was not that it wouldn’t be one of a group of people you love, but of a group you - well - at least love a lot less, and were hoping they were living down to your expectations of them?
i disagree on this race issue!
does everyone here suffer, like most americans, of SHORT-TERM memory syndrome ? remember RED LAKE, MN. @ American Indian school where many students + a teacher died only 2 yrs. ago? might be to painful to look at these truths given the facts that most land owners have deeds that arise under fraudelent treaties + outright theft.
and as far as media personalities coining terms like “worst mass shooting in all american history”, maybe you should check out WOUNDED KNEE, SAND CREEK or many other native massacres where only Amererican Indians died. fresh coat of paint on the white picket fence maybe we forget RED LAKE too.
i forget there is no red in the rainbow coalition when it comes to native rights, ayyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
hope + prayers go to the families of those students + victims. aho
I have to chime in as a “disagreer” on this one; there is a considerable stereotype (backed, like most stereotypes, by some actual evidence) of “rednecks” as violent. (BTW, for you non-Southerners–WASP usually refers to upper-class whites; poor Scots-Irish whites are NOT WASPs, and a considerable chunk of Southern politics is driven by the fights between the two groups.)
A clarification/correction
This :
“. . . and far less than those who want to connect these crimes with ‘maleness’ in general.”
should read:
“And I’m guessing that both numbers will be far less than those who want to connect these crimes with maleness in general.”
Grubenil: no problem - sounds like we’re on the same page.
For all the criticism of the “right-wing blogs” who were “hoping” it was a Muslim, it sounds like the same song - just changing the words a little.
I agree - people seem to map their own fears and hatred onto events such as this. Some White liberals expect him to be White, southern and redneck, some Arab and Muslim haters expect him to be Muslim. But the killer is who he is - a single data point. I’m not going to twitch the next time I meet a young Korean man.
Apparently it was not just fringe bloggers who jumped to Muslim conclusions - the loathsome Debbie Schlussel speculated on her blog that this was a “Paki” terrorist attack.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200704170006
Gonz, it’s a bit of a stretch to say I dislike Southern white men. I have family in Virginia and South Carolina, and my male cousins in Charlottesville and Columbia (SC) are dear to me. The Billy Bob remark was problematic, particularly because of the famous class distinction between “gentlemen” and “bubbas” in the South. (My family likes to think of itself as being made up largely of the former.) Would it have helped if I had said “I wish Cho Seung-Hui were named William Robert Johnson IV, the scion of an old and respected family”?
I’ve left Dave’s execrable remark up because, well, it proves my point.
Hugo, you’re reaching new lows with this post - shame on you.
Sure, white males who go on murderous rampages don’t have their actions connected to their whiteness (and male gender) - except of course among the academics in humanities departments across the Western world, where white males are denigrated and vilified for most all of society’s ills. See the Duke lacrosse case for a prime example of the tip of the iceberg. (Side note: I’m sure the faculty at Duke known as the “Duke 88″are breathing a sigh of relief at the timing of this incident - gets their shameless racism and sexism out of the news, at least until the civil lawsuits start pouring in.) The stereotyping that went on in Durham almost sent three innocent men to jail, and was (and is) no better than the “far-right wingers” who jump on this incident in order to harsh on Asians. And further, you’re no better vis-a-vis jumping on this incident to make the factually unsupportable statement that “It’s obvious from the history of mass shootings that most killers — the Dylan Klebolds, the Marc Lepines — have been white males.” Really?
Idi Amin. Pol Pot. Mao Tse Tung. Papa Doc Duvalier. Saddam Hussein.
Or how about guys like Colin Ferguson? Or the African American gangbangers who kill white males as part of their initiation into gang culture.
White males? I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.
To say that white males aren’t vilified when they go on murderous rampages is disingenuous on your part. I’ll say it again: White males are vilified by you and your ilk for pretty much all the ills in society. I even recall you stating last year that white males ‘are responsible for most of the injustice in our society.’ It’s a shame you didn’t also note that white males are responsible for doing the most good in our society as well, but then that wouldn’t fit in with the program. However, such numbers are simply what comes from being the majority in any given society - it’s a simple statistical reality.
A more nuanced and scholarly - but probably less politically advantageous vis-a-vis promoting your contempt for white males - would be to examine the number of white male “shooters” vs. their overall numbers in the population. You know, break it down by x number of “shooters” per 100,000 stratified by race.
But as I said, that probably wouldn’t serve your political goals so well and might even turn up some inconvenient truths.
Mr. Bad, add the word “school” before the word “mass” into the sentence of mine you quote — and my point holds. With that addition, I stand by my remarks.
Sir, you’re obvious prejudice has determined where my childern will be going to college in the Fall of 07.
It won’t be to Pasadena City College as originally intended.
I can only imagine what type of prejudice you must be promoting in your classrooms if you have the nerve to publicize what you are promoting here.
As an adult, where is your sense of responsibility to provide a balanced view of social issues when communicating to young adults.
As an educator, how can you morally accept the fact that you are abusing your authority.
You are in effect as prejudice as those you are arguing against.
If Dave’s execrable remark really proves your point that Cho’s “Asian-ness” may be seen as being connected to his crime, do my links prove that “whiteness” is also seen as connected to this kind of crime?
Tim Wise is a white man, Kate Marie, calling out his own culture. http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Tim_Wise To compare Dave’s “gook” remark to Tim Wise’s often wince-inducing (but insightful) challenges to WASP hypocrisy doesn’t seem analogous here.
Insulted, I wish your childern well.
Hugo, you’re backtracking and revising on the fly (reminiscent of Amanda Marcotte during the Edwards blogging flap), but hey, that’s Ok. People are seeing you and your ilk for who you are, and it ain’t pretty.
Let’s see how long the effects of Cho’s ethnicity last as compared to similar effects of the likes of Timothy McVeigh, Marc Lepine, Ted Kaczynsky, Charlie Manson, et al. What say we revisit this issue in a couple of years, ‘kay?
Within two weeks, Mr. Bad, we will hear stories of young Asian male students being teased or tormented as a result of this shooting. If you can match that evidence — which I am almost certain, sadly, WILL APPEAR — with evidence of similar behavior towards whites after McVeigh blew up the Murrah Federal Building, I’ll concede a point.
Let’s revisit this first week in May. Let’s see what kind of anecdotal stories surface. Let’s be patient, prayerful, and kind.
What difference does Tim Wise’s “whiteness” make?
You claimed people will use this incident to connect “Asian-ness” with muderous rampages. You offer “Dave” (about whose race we have no idea) as “proof.”
You also claimed that “whiteness” doesn’t get connected to these crimes. I offered Wise’s column as refutation of that claim. Now you seem to be saying, “Well, maybe sometimes whiteness gets connected to these crimes, but only by white people in ‘insightful’ challenges to WASP hypocrisy. And that’s different.”
It has been a common (and generally correct) cultural meme of the past few years that school shooters tend to be white, despite the stereotype of black youth violence. The great cultural commentator Chris Rock even mentioned this in his routine: http://script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/c/chris-rock-bigger-and-blacker-script.html
Who knows if there is an Asian cultural connection? Crazy happens in all colors.
Kate, Wise was writing about the silence of the white community. Dave wasn’t. And if you seriously think there’s a chance Dave is Asian, you’re reachin’.
When an Asian-American commentator comes forward to talk about how a cultural reluctance to talk about mental illness may have contributed to this massacre, I will listen to that respectfully. That will be an intelligent connection to make. That will be different from the hate that the Daves of the world are spewing here… and worse, the hate that I fear and suspect is being visited on the one Asian kid in the back of the class in schools across this country. Today.
Would it have helped if I had said “I wish Cho Seung-Hui were named William Robert Johnson IV, the scion of an old and respected family”?
Yes. It would have helped a great deal.
To me, the issue is that there’s no pre-existing stereotype of Koreans as unusually violent for this incident to feed into. There is such a stereotype for rednecks, for blacks, and for “Arabs” (really, Middle Easterners). I’m sure that some Koreans will be teased and harassed; I’m also quite certain that the level of generalization will be far less than it would have been had the shooter been Jordanian.
““Damn, why couldn’t it have been a white boy?” ”
– Let’s be patient, prayerful, and kind, even while we eagerly await the “anecdotal stories” that will surface about “teased and tormented” young Asian males — every one of which stories we will clasp to our breasts in patient and prayerful gratitude for having confirmed our smug and unkind assumptions.
SamChevre makes a good point above: “To me, the issue is that there’s no pre-existing stereotype of Koreans as unusually violent for this incident to feed into.”
By the way, Dave may not be Asian, but are you assuming he’s white? Why? Do you really have any idea, or is it just that only white people buy into ugly racial stereotyping?
Sam, then consider this post retitled. We do have a stereotype of Asian men as seething with unexpressed rage, often justified: http://www.bitterasianmen.com/
Actually Hugo, white male kids in high school were stereotyped, marginalilzed, etc. (although not “tormented” or “teased” because it was assumed they were all packing shotguns under their dusters) after Columbine, but apparently you never noticed that. And even more sadly, back then feminists went out of their way to dwell on the issue of “white” and “male” as is happening here with you and your fellow feminist and ‘pro-feminist’ bloggers. As I said, let’s see what happens over the weeks, months, and I would prefer, years, as this would allow passions to cool off.
ignorance is certainly bliss here! & right on to the father who cares enough not to send his child to pasadena.
prayers again to the victims + perps’ family. aho
While I agree Billy Bob was probably not the best name to choose (Bob Smith or something else similarly common might have been better), I also found myself hoping the kid would be white and not an ethnic minority. Why? Because a killer who is white is treated like a killer, plain and simple. But the actions of a killer who is Asian will be assumed by some (before the facts come to light) to have been influenced by or a natural outcome of his ethnicity or cultural experience. That is not always the case.
Your post touches on the unwillingness of some in the Asian community in the U.S., particularly those less assimilated, to seek out counseling when needed. The taboo is a reality and has been documented, particularly by groups that provide counseling to that segment of our society. However, in this case, I would exercise caution before pointing to that general tendency before the facts are known. Furthermore, the guy came to the U.S. when he was 8 or 9 and grew up here; culturally, it sounds like he’s pretty American. One cannot generalize about entire Asian American communities without taking into account factors like levels of assimilation.
Regarding emotional repression, I can’t say I agree. Certain Asian families emphasize this, but others do not — far from it!
As for the “highly competitive” Korean and Chinese families mentioned in this post, I have to say I agree and disagree. There are some families that are highly competitive, materialistic, shallow, narcissistic, etc — and there are also other families that are exactly the opposite. I grew up in the latter. My parents taught us to do our best for the sake of just that. It wasn’t about beating other people or being better than others. Furthermore, unlike some other Asian families in the SGV, my parents valued the idea of moderation and weren’t about winning no matter what. Hey, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. As long as you do your best, are content with what you’ve got, and are a helpful and kind person to others, you’re all good. Other Asian families are like ours, but I’m afraid it’s only the uber-competitive, take-no-prisoner Asian families who get all the press.
Often, if a white family emphasizes competitiveness (and there are many such families, too), they would only be billed as a “family” (not white family) who emphasized competitiveness. If an Asian family did the same, people would say that the competitiveness stems from their Asian culture.
See, here we are factoring in different perceived Asian traits as we psychoanalyze the guy. If he were not Asian, but white, we would be looking at him differently. Maybe we might speculate he was stalking a woman who didn’t want to date him and went berserk when that happened. Maybe he was upset because of some perceived slight by a teacher. Maybe he was another kid out looking for attention and fame via violence in the way so glorified by our American culture. The guy spent the majority of his life growing up the U.S.; why are we so focused on his supposed Asian culture and its supposed contributing factors to his actions? Maybe there are other factors involved.
Sydney, the person who seems to be focusing on Cho’s Asian culture is Professor Schwyzer.
Most girls I know ignore Asian men, and do not consider them dateable (I’m white by the way). It must be very hard for young Asian men to be systematically overlooked by the girls, even a lot of Asian girls prefer to date white.
Wow what a selfish stupid thing to say.
Some of these pro-asian groups at colleges are really just racist fronts in disguise. Woe is the chained and oppressed Asian minority in America. Give me a fucking break.
You wish it was just a white boy? Looks like you have lots to learn about “race”, shove your selfish racist agenda’s where the sun don’t shine. You are just as bad as white frat boy racists!
Anthony’s little diatribe is the last such comment allowed through here. From here on, the bigots get their comments deleted. Complaints about that policy will also be deleted.
Maybe I was a bit harsh and speedy in my reply to your article. The whole thing is quite appalling to think about. Basically you want white people to do evil things so that Asian people will look better as a whole? You wish the race of a killer was different. How silly does that sound? White people are already blamed for everything that goes wrong by closed minded people like you, but you fail to recognize that “white” people are actually individuals just like all Asian people. You want people to see Asians as individuals yet you fail to give that same respect to “white” people. By clumping us (yes us…as in Irish, Scottish. English, French, German etc. etc. etc.)
Don’t even get me started on the term “white” people. I have a culture and a country of origin in Europe. I speak two languages and I am not “white” as you would put it. Just as Chinese people are not simply Asian. They have their own distinct cultural differences, let alone individual differences.
“Damn, why couldn’t it have been a white boy?” People that are stupid enough to conclude all Asians are violent (is this realistic?) based on the actions of one lunatic probably already hate them already.
You remind me of that site the Fighting 44’s (go google those wackos)who argue Asian Americans are so oppressed in this country. They are probably arguing over there that he killed people because he was so oppressed. Give us a break—the only stereotype Asians hold in this country is that they are smart and a bit dorky. And this is only held by a minority of people.
Hugo -
I wish he’d been one of “us,” too. For precisely the same reasons.
“Billy Bob,” too, because he’d be one of *us, and not one of *you (*y’all already had the Duke lacrosse boys. (Innocent? Not ’til they’re all dead, apparently.
Working-class Southern men have their own offensive stereotypes to deal with, but we’re used to it. The burden is not crippling.
Prayers for everybody.
hpb
Austin, TX
I look at this case as being a combination of post-immigration adjustment issues, probably living in two cultures and not having the best time of it, and, as someone said, perhaps feeling stripped of his masculinity and sexuality as an Asian man in the United States.
It is my understanding (though admittedly based on relatively flimsy evidence, mostly anecdotes from other Asian immigrants and watching a lot of Asian film that probably never got played in the US outside of a few art houses in NYC and LA) that in Asia men absolutely rule. They are strong, confident and virile, as well as rather bossy with women often times, often using women for their own pleasure and comfort. To come from such a milieu and then come here and be so emasculated as Asian men often are here in the US it might make you want to lash out violently (especially if one factors in possible romantic rejection as a trigger).
Truth be told, the dating situation for Asian men perhaps only marginally better in Asia, as many Asian countries face serious woman shortages that leave men to go to great lengths to find wives. The woman shortage (and therefore overabundance of young single men) is said to be leading to a crime problem in many Chinese cities, for instance. This woman shortage is a byproduct of policies (like in China) that limited families to one child and they often chose male children. Now China and other similar countries is seeing the results of its otherwise well-intentioned population control policies. The fact that many women in Asia often put off or forego marrage and children in favor of careers (this is said to especially be the case in Japan, where they say “Women have changed but men have not. I will not get married and be some man’s nursemaid”, etc.) or in other cases marry foreigners (often white) this exascerbates the marriage problem for Asian men. Then, once again, you get to America where there are many single women but these women don’t have time for Asian men.
I am not sure what the cultural situation and male/female ratios are in South Korea, but I imagine that they are influenced forces similar to those that influence other Asian countries.
Not that I am condoning this shooting, but having read enough about the plight of Asian men in the American dating market (some may say it’s worse than the situation of Black women. I recently read that Asian men are the LEAST likely to be chosen and contacted by women of every racial group on most major dating sites) once again, if you are even a lottle unstable and something like a romantic rejection trips you off, it could send someone already troubled into a downward spiral of deapair leading to violence.
And as for your “Why couldn’t it be a white boy” comment, I completely understand. When white people do bad things, that person has problems or is a bad apple. If non-whites, or better yet, non-WASPs of any sort do bad things, their entire group is labelled as dysfunctional.
Then again, I read after the Columbine massacre that afterwards, white kids (perhaps just in Colorado, perhaps all over the country - I wasn’t living in the US at the time so all I have are media reports that filtered back to Israel) were afraid of other white kids moreso than they might have been afraid of Black kids previously, on the assumption that maybe, possible a Black kid might bring a gun to school and shoot a specific person that he has a beef with, whereas white kids are angry at the world and come with machine guns to shoot up the entire school - and all over some bullshit like being made fun of (as if generations of kids did not have to deal with being made fun of an ostracized before).
Hang on a sec Treifalicious - I was with you up until you said: “…whereas white kids are angry at the world and come with machine guns to shoot up the entire school - and all over some bullshit like being made fun of (as if generations of kids did not have to deal with being made fun of an ostracized before).” Your missive re. Asian boys not being able to get a date, being teased, etc., falls into the same category of “bullshit” that you attribute above to what white kids endure.
The real issue here is that this type of excessive violence is a problem we see in males of all ethnic groups in the U.S., not just Asians, blacks, whites, et al. We see a majority of this behavior in white kids because whites are the majority in the U.S. I’m pretty sure that in South Korea, it’s Koreans who are the majority killers. And as others have pointed out, this may be due to cultural forces that keep boys and men from seeking out mental health services. No doubt at least some of the mental health problems in contemporary boys is due to pandemic misandry in Western societies; when a society insists on maintaining the position that a sub-group is second-class, not as valued - even “pathologic” as Hugo and others have labeled healthy, normal masculinity - then that subgroup will eventually lash-out. Years ago I and others - notably Camille Paglia - predicted that the marginalization of males (especially white males) in our society would end up in increased violence. While the career hand-wringers have been obsessing over issues relating to girls’ self-esteem we’ve not only been ignoring and neglecting boys, but even allowing some organized segments of our society to actively vilify them - the Canadian authors Nathanson and Young have written 2 books about this problem.
We reap what we sow.
Is it to early to point out the ironic humor in all this?
Hugo, and all the blog-feminists words on this issue are going to be used by Newsweek to support the idea of a ‘boy crisis’ (Newsweek has been a huge proponent of the boys crisis) . Basically the intolerant words are going to have nearly exactly the opposite effect they intended.
When I read update 3, it wasn’t so much a belly laugh as much as a guffaw.
Also, as a liberal, I would like to point out, these types of views do not represent liberalism. The proper dogmatic liberal view of this this thing at VT is “What a tragedy for everyone including the shooter”, not “How do we shift to blame to white men.” That is if you want to have a functional liberal political party anyhow. All my work in the democratic party would indicate that the vast majority of the Democratic functionaries and operatives are, white men…
Also, the net-roots is going to be badly harmed by this. With all the gun grabbers coming out of the woodwork again. The DC democrats are going to be distancing themselves from you guys. It is an issue that loses elections, it doesn’t matter what the facts are. Let it go, there is more important work right now.
Trefalicious: I am not sure what the cultural situation and male/female ratios are in South Korea, but I imagine that they are influenced forces similar to those that influence other Asian countries.
I believe this recent NY Times article has some relevance to this question. Essentially, hard-luck South Korean bachelors who cannot get a date at home are travelling to Vietnam to find wives.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/22/world/asia/22brides.html?ex=1329800400&en=e7549c68e20c55fd&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
I find it intriguing in our 20/20 hindsight that a lot of the ‘typical’ themes that we see in situations like this are emerging - the killer’s writings are obsessively focused on revenge fantasies against authority figures, he was a deeply lonely and isolated person according to some of his teachers, he had attempted arson in a dorm room. Looking back, we can all smack our foreheads and say “of course”. But how do we ever know that this eccentric is harmless, whereas that one is a human time bomb?
According to the Smoking Gun web site (title is sadly apropos):
“Entitled “Richard McBeef,” Cho’s bizarre play features a 13-year-old boy who accuses his stepfather of pedophilia and murdering his father.”
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html
The inarticulate anger and hatred of the writing is pretty scary, and the themes suggest possible abuse and mistreatment in the past. Nothing can ever excuse what this young man did, but it is clear that he was in a lot of pain for some reason and wanted to hurt others as a result.
I teach at a high school with a large contingent of Korean students and they are feeling partly responsible for this tragedy. This may be part cultural, but I have to wonder whether the constant pointing out that this young man was Asian is not exacerbating the problem. It should be enough to say that he is a Virginia Tech student. After all, colleges and universities are supposed to be international communities. Thanks for the post.
Kevin, they are feeling responsible because they have a sense of collective guilt. Why? Because you liberals teach it to them.
Hugo himself is a big proponent that “men” need to transform themselves collectively for “women.” Feminism - hell, any identity politics - teaches such collective guilt. A white guy does something - bam, another example of the man keeping people down. (See the violence inherent in the system!) A man rapes a women? “YOU MEN” need to step up and police yourselves, you’re all to blame in a way for this!”
Once you teach them that there is a collective sense of guilt which can be applied to your whipping boys (White, Heterosexual, Christian, Male, etc. etc) Logical and philosophical consistency demands that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
It’s really not that complex.
And they’re only in high school. In college they will learn the rationalizations and excuses to hold two mutually contradictory positions at the same time. Right now, they haven’t had that fundamental honesty indoctrinated out of them yet.
Katie Marie–
Find me an article that was published after the killer was identified that does NOT name him as “Asian” or “Korean” or an ‘immigrant’. That’s the focus on race that Hugo was talking about. Although most school shooters have been white, news articles did not refer to them as such (except occasionally before they had been identified ie “The shooter is described as a white man in his early 20s…”). When a person is white, their race is not usually considered relevant to the general public. Obviously, it would be of interest to academics and people who study whiteness. Part of white privilege in America, though, is to have your race be ‘invisible’ to most people; to be the default and to not have your actions attributed to your culture. (Again, I am speaking of the general public here, your link above is a good example of an academic interest in whiteness).
Admittedly, I also flinched at the “Billy Bob” and some of the wording of this post, but Hugo’s point, as I’m reading it, is that some interpretations of this isolated event have the potential to cause problems for people who are the same race as the perpetrator that would not happen if the perpetrator were white. And I think that, at least, is right on.
I am wondering, Grubenil, why it isn’t OK to be concerned with the consequences of this event for the Asian-American community at large. Obviously it was a tragedy– nobody is disputing that. But 9/11 was another highly publicized tragedy that had serious repercussions not only for the families of the victims, but also for the families of Middle Eastern descent that were targeted by hate crimes immediately afterwards. It doesn’t in any way diminish the tragedy to worry about the repercussions for other innocent people. Maybe Mr. Bad is right and there will be no backlash against Asians, but based on our history, I doubt it.
Thank you for the write up it is very useful to know what to look for when you find anyone depressed, and loner typed; I think people should try harder to reach out to the “scary people”.
Posting pre-coffee. Could be a typo or two in here.
I think collective guilt is illogical, I’m not personally responsible for slavery due to being white. But I do feel that I have a ethical responsibility- if I am indeed not a racist- to be an ally to blacks in their civil rights struggle. Gonz, you may not be personally responsible for rape, but if you are not a rapist, can you really stand back and do nothing, tell women who have been raped- ‘well, that’s YOUR problem, bitch. I didn’t do nothin’.’ Seems like a bit of a cop-out to me.
Maybe we just need to put a positive spin on it- responsibility rather then ‘guilt’, so that people can feel good about themselves for doing it.
Others have said that ‘white men’ were stereotyped and harrassed after Columbine. It was *goths* and other outsider freaky kids (and I was one, so I know) who caught hell for this- yes, a good bit of them were male and a lot of them were white. But it wasn’t about whiteness or maleness- it was about being a goth, wearing black, writing disturbing poetry. Etc. Conversly, a whole bunch of the people in my face at the time, calling me a murderer-in-waiting for being a goth *were* white males- and I’m a girl.
Hugo definitely seems to see his ideals of transformation through a religious lens, so there’s a big element of collective responsibility there. Sort of a ‘do unto thy neighbour thing.’ I’d say that men shouldn’t try not to be violent emotionally-constipated crypto-rapist thunderjerks for *women* per se, they should do it for themselves. They should do it because going through life trying to cram yourself into this teeny stupid box that only allows you to be a penis with rage issues is a really horrid, boring, stupid and limiting way to live. They should do it because being an actual *human being* rather then a limited gender stereotype is much more rewarding. For society, yes, but also for themselves.
Kevin, they are feeling responsible because they have a sense of collective guilt. Why? Because you liberals teach it to them.
No, I don’t think this is the case - this collective feeling is highly ingrained and socialized in Korean culture. (As it is in many Asian cultures.) In fact, there are two key concepts at play here: “kibun” and “nunchi”. “Kibun” may be loosely translated as “feeling”, but more to the point, this highlights the feelings of those around you, not your own. And “nunchi”, literally meaning “eye-measure”, is the sensing of the general mood of the people you are interacting with at some point in time. This leads to a collective, more communal sense of mood, especially when something this traumatic occurs in the community.
Furthermore, the Korean language itself provides clues as to the importance of social collectivity. Often times, one would express the concepts, “my house” (je jip), “my grandmother” (je halmoni), and even “I/me” (nae/je) as “our house” (uri jip), “our grandmother” (uri/jeoheui halmoni), and “we/us” (uri/jeohui).
My prayers to the victims, their families and friends, and anyone else affected by this tragedy.
Acer, what you and your ilk like to call “white privilege” is simply based on the fact that whites are the majority in the U.S. Were a white person to do this in, say, Japan, the race of the person most certainly be front and center simply because the person is not a member of the majority. This is not based on so-called “white privilege,” it’s based in statistical reality.
Until folks like you stop making a big deal out of the issue of race at every imaginable opportunity, race will continue to be a big deal.
Gonzman –
You said: “Kevin, they are feeling responsible because they have a sense of collective guilt. Why? Because you liberals teach it to them.”
Exactly how do you infer my political stance from my comment. These are international students; what evidence do you have that I am responsible for teaching a sense of collective guilt? Very silly indeed.
Kevin
Kevin, two things:
1) I am drawing flak. You don’t get that unless you are near the target.
2) I don’t infer it from your one comment. I infer it from your history.
But I do feel that I have a ethical responsibility- if I am indeed not a racist- to be an ally to blacks in their civil rights struggle.
The devil is in the details. I have several levels of responsibility. For example, my libertarian philosophy and basic sense of fair play requires me to give folks the benefit of equality of opportunity. This has to be measured against the continued existence to my company, and the security of my other employees. It is well and good for me to extend a chance to anyone who is qualified for a position. I would be a fool indeed to turn away a talented black technician or engineer who would be extremely profitable to my company just because he is black.
I see it as likewise indefensible to hire him - because he is black.
This is seen by many in the left spectrum as being insufficiently committed to civil rights., even though the minorities employed by me far, far outnumber the proportion personally employed by Al Franken.
Gonz, you may not be personally responsible for rape, but if you are not a rapist, can you really stand back and do nothing, tell women who have been raped- ‘well, that’s YOUR problem, bitch. I didn’t do nothin’.’ Seems like a bit of a cop-out to me.
If that were the case, indeed it would be. That is a false dilemma, though.
I’m an avid Newsweek reader. That’s so cool that they interviewed you!! I’ll be sure to watch for your comments in their cover story.
Mr. Bad - I agree that there is a certain outsized level of violence in American society that affects all men, but it has been quoted often that the United States leads the world in violent gun-related crimes. Serial killers are largely an American phenomenon. I have never been to South Korea or read their press, but I have a sneaking feeling that people don’t shoot up their schools as often there.
All I was saying was that a volatile cocktail of social and psychological forces came together to facilitate this tragedy and I speculated on what those forces could be in this specific guy. The immigration issue could lead to feelings of alienation. Lord knows I understand how living in a foreign country can get lonely and lead you to feel disconnected at times. This could only be exascerbated by things like the situation of Asian men here, as someone who had posted earlier had referred to. It later came out that he stalked a couple of women and his teachers and roomates were afraid of him.
Lastly, I think it’s sad that the Korean population at Virginia Tech (as well as the Korean government) feels such fear and shame over this that people are fleeing campus. Maybe I am naive (and I was not here on September 11th and did not witness its immediate aftermath here) but I don’t think people will lash out violently against Koreans or Asians in general. It’s not like this guy aimed to destroy the United States or Western culture as the Arabs are believed to, especially Al Qaeda. Remember that the 9/11 ttacks were preceeded by decades of terrorism in the name of Islam directed against Americans as well as others. Too many people have a positive impression of Koreans and Asians in general for a violent backlash to happen IMHO.
Truly I’m really quite disappointed by much of the discussion I’ve read here. Hugo, I thought your post was insightful, thought provoking and honest. Honesty is often hard to deal with and I imagine that is why so many of the comments are so clearly defensive. It seems so hard for people to step outside of their own experience and take a second to imagine or, God forbid; empathize with the experience of another ethnic group or gender. As a teacher of Hispanic, Asian and African immigrants as well as African American students, I am constantly confronting my own stereotypes and prejudices. It’s ugly and it’s difficult to own. Its reality, I think that to pretend that we live in a society where the headlines can simply read “Student Goes on Murderous Rampage” without including details of race and class is, unfortunately, unrealistic. What I wish is that this could be a forum to discuss our condition and to confront our own “collective” responsibility for where we have found ourselves.
Hugo, I would have found it a privilege to have had such a thought provoking professor when I was in college. You’re students are fortunate.
Thanks, Hopeful! Merm, the interview was for the online edition of Newsweek, it was done by a woman named Noelle Chun and ought to appear by the end of the week.
People, everyone knows the “race” of this murderer because his picture is splashed across newspapers and computer screens all over the world, and his background and history will be obsessively “studied” and interpreted by the media, just as it was in the case of Klebold and Harris.
Hopeful, the reaction to what Professor Schwyzer said here is not necessarily a sign of defensiveness. Do you think it could be simply that, I dunno, some people disagree with it?
Do you not see how your characterization of the reaction as “defensiveness,” your paean to empathy, and your inspiring call for us to confront our “collective responsibility” are subtle ways of portraying dissenting interlcutors as irrational, unfeeling, and unwilling to acknowledge their own [insert favorite ism here]?
Look, I’ll admit that some of my comments here have been too sarcastic and thus unlikely to promote “dialogue,” but I wasn’t really interested in having a dialogue on Professor Schwyzer’s terms. Professor Schwyzer, after all, is the one who — on the mornning after a terrible massacre — wrote that his reaction to learning the identity of the killer was “Damn, why couldn’t it have been a white boy?” He injected race into the discussion from the outset, and he justified the injection of race with a specious claim that Asian-Americans will experience a backlash and that Cho’s race will be depicted as somehow connected or integral to his terrible crime. When either of those things happens, I would certainly be interested in hearing about it, but I don’t think it’s indicative of defensiveness or a lack of compassion to expect that a professor who makes such claims actually back them up with more than vague references to the stereotyping that Asian men suffer — and with which, to be honest, I’ve had no experience, though I’m reluctant to offer my singular experience as “proof” of anything.
Moreover, Professor Schwyzer included casually bigoted references to good ol’ white boys named Billy Bob in his jeremiad against bigotry and prejudice, and then he let himself off the hook quite easily when he was called on it, even while he admonished others to be judicious, patient, prayerful, and kind, and *even while* he apparently continued to assume that his own use of this terrible tragedy as a “teachable moment” was judicious, patient, and kind. Thus, while Professor Schwyzer calls us on to be more self-critical and self-aware, he presents scant evidence of those qualities in his *own* response to this horror.
It seems so hard for people to step outside of their own experience and take a second to imagine or, God forbid; empathize with the experience of another ethnic group or gender. As a teacher of Hispanic, Asian and African immigrants as well as African American students,
Oh, great googley-moogley.
We live in a nation of 300 million people. The amount of these shootings we have don’t even rise to the level of statistically significant, let alone being able to draw any conclusions off of it.
The guy was unbalanced. Period. When push comes to shove he was a few fries short of a happy meal. This has nothing do do with race or anything else, what rage he was feeling at the world will probably turn out to have been exacerbated by the Vulcan Mind Meld Rays(tm) his Corn Flakes were transmitting to him. History of increasing mental instability, and all - he was of an age for schizophrenia to start rearing its ugly head. It’s a simple, elegant explanation which does not multiply causes unnecessarily.
And that doesn’t even say anything about people with mental illnesses. Hell, all kinds of people have all kinds of pressures and rages and they don’t go about shooting universities up. I could be uncharitable and name a couple dozen bloggers who I think are nuttier than a squirrel turd and I’m not even slightly concerned they are going to crawl up in a Bell Tower.
What this “Right Wing” blogger has been more concerned about is that this guy picked a place where he KNEW for a fact his targets would be unarmed. Virginia Tech might as well put up a sign that said “Canned Hunting for Whack-Jobs.”
For the record, “Marc Lepine” lived most of his life as “Gamil Rodrigue Gharbi” and was trained in Islamo-misogyny by his Algerian father.
From Wikipedia:
“Gamil’s father had contempt for women and believed that they were only intended to serve men.[4] He was verbally and physically abusive to his wife and children,[5] once beating his son so hard on the face that the marks were visible a week later.”
Kate Marie, well done. I couldn’t have said it better myself - as should be obvious from my posts here. ;)
Oh, and Gonz: Over at SYG there’s a fascinating post re. how psychotropic drugs may have been a factor in this case, as well as Columbine and other school shootings. Surely Cho was as you say, “unbalanced,” and perhaps medications used to treat such illnesses had a role to play in it. Who knows? It certainly points to the high probability that most all of the school shooters were at least several beers short of a six pack.
Could be. God knows my battles with depression, and what with me having a very atypical and treatment resistant form of it leaves me to grant it credence as a viable theory. I can speak from personal experience, the side effects of some of these drugs can be horrendous. Me and SSRIs, for example, just do not get along. They drive me manic, every time; and still I get these shizzle-for-brains doctors wanting to put me on them.
As an American male of Korean descent (not a Korean-American… hythens that do more to separate and perpetuate marginalization), I applaud you for attempting highlight the racial stereotyping of Asian males that is a fact of life here. I live it everyday. Will this horrific incident cause backlash and incite people to react in an explosive way? I don’t really think so. Or will the backlash continue to be more subtle and consist of a million little travestities that occur constantly, not only to Asians, but to all people of color in the U.S.? I still believe that this the most openminded and welcoming nation in the world though.
Lets face it, stereotyping is a fact of life. It is easy to simplify a person and make presumptions based on facial appearance and a few descriptive words, an act which defies an individual’s complex composition and life experience. When we see pictures of Cho, do we see an American? Or a foreigner? Or is this even the right framework to begin a discussion about him? I see a lonely, misguided and mentally sick human being who unfortunately decided that his life and those of others were not worthwhile.
Does this incident have racial undertones? I believe so, because of the way it is being reported by the media. And did racism exacerbate the feeble condition of a sick mind? Probably. Nonetheless, race and ethnicity are not nor should they be the main issues coming out of this tragic incident.
This L.A. Times opinion piece says it best:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-chang18apr18,0,6121295.story
Kate Marie, yes, I’m aware Hugo is pointing to ethnicity; that was one of my points. So is Dave, albeit from a decidedly different angle: “Just another reason to keep the gooks out of my country.”
This supports my agreement w/Hugo’s initial statement that in a lot of ways, it would have been better had it been some average white Joe-Schmo.
Barring unusual circumstances, in America a killer who is white would be treated simply as a killer, not a white killer, but a killer. The VTech killer will not. There may be blame placed on his culture, his ethnicity. Countless, wildly speculative assertions (comb through previous posts as well as Hugo’s entry for these) will be made about factors contributing to his killings everything from “Asian men are so repressed they have to play violent video games to vent (as if other ethnicities and women don’t play violent video games), it’s no wonder why this guy blew a fuse” to “that’s because Asian men can’t get dates” and “Asian men lord over their women and rule the roost back in Asia, and they can’t adjust that their not #1 in the U.S. of A” type of judgments.
I guess people, even well-meaning, kind-hearted people, can’t help but think this way sometimes; it’s hard for people to see beyond their own stereotypes or limited experiences with subsets of specific ethnic minorities in order to see that a person is just a person, like everyone else.
BTW, I don’t recall anyone suggesting anything nefarious about the Irish culture when Timothy McVeigh during the Oklahoma bombing.
Treifalicious said:
“Too many people have a positive impression of Koreans and Asians in general for a violent backlash to happen IMHO.”
Does the name Vincent Chin ring a bell? In 1982 in the Detroit area, this guy was murdered by two white guys who were laid off by the auto industry. The white guys blamed all Asians for their layoffs because the Japanese auto industry was doing better and better, taking more of the American marketshare. Never mind that Vincent Chin was American, ethnically Chinese (not Japanese), a blue collar worker like his murderers, and had absolutely nothing to do with their layoffs. He was just a guy at the wrong place and wrong time, and he was singled out for murder because in the killers’ eyes, he had the face of the people they felt had done them wrong.
Sometimes people don’t think clearly, and they lash out when they feel angry or hurt. Obviously, Vincent Chin had nothing to do w/the layoffs of those guys. But those two murderers probably felt angry, humiliated, and hurt, and they took out their anger and negative feelings on a guy they decided would represent the enemy.
This is the kind of backlash Asians Americans worry about.
As for collective shame, I think we — not just Koreans — should all feel collective shame. That kid was one of us. He grew up here, remember. He attended local schools, played on local streets, and attended college like so many of us do or did. We should all feel shameful and sad.
Sydney, I disagree with you. Why should you have any shame at all? Sad yes but shame, no. You in no way contributed to the incident. Did Americans of Irish descent display explicit about McVeigh? I doubt it. Ethnicity was not even a sidenote in anyone’s mind as you pointed out.
I guess people, even well-meaning, kind-hearted people, can’t help but think this way sometimes; it’s hard for people to see beyond their own stereotypes or limited experiences with subsets of specific ethnic minorities in order to see that a person is just a person, like everyone else.
This young man is (was?) indeed a person like everyone else, but in the aftermath of such a terrible incident people like to comb through the wreckage for clues.
At the risk of getting a bit too meta-, I will say that his immigrant-ness, or his Korean-ness, or his introversion are fair game for discussion as long as the speculation does not make use of unfair generalizations or stereotypes, or jump to premature conclusions
Saying “Koreans are X, therefore we know why this kid did what he did” is obvious nonsense. Asking questions (respectfully) about his experience as a Korean immigrant to the USA, or about his traits of shyness and introversion, might help us understand something.
There was an interesting article in the Los Angeles Times today about this very issue. God willing, PCC’s newspaper will cover it with a little decency and integrity, but I doubt it. They recently published a piece claiming that there is truth to some Asian-American stereotypes. I can only hope that the same message won’t filter into their story about this.
Thanks, Hugo. You’ve conveyed so eloquently a lot of what I’ve been thinking and worrying about lately.
I am just amazed at how you have been taken in by Mr. Schawyzer. Since he controls the content of what is being posted here, how controlling is he being? He’ll only let you see what he wants you to see. I doubt he will let this post.
It’s all just a little to convenient that he takes a horrific situation, introduces a racial spin, adds an antagonistic statement to stir up controversy and throws it up here knowing that people are going to google the murder’s name and come across this site.
Then he sits back and passes judgement on those who posts. Or better yet, uses it in his classes (if he really is a professor)carefully editing your opinions in his favor to taint his students.
Mr. Schawyzer you are a pathetic little monster, frustrated with what life has dealt you. To take advantage of such a sad occasion is scraping the bottom of the barrel. If you were in the room with the murderer whould you be standing by his side telling him which races and genders to shoot?
The people posting here are doing so with sincerity and honesty. And you’re just having your fun taking advantage of them.
The reason I say this is I noticed how he relished the comment about his site being recognized by Newsweek. You know Hugo, you had it easy this week with the mass murder. What crisis are you going to racially spin next week for more noteriety?
Amazed, you get those two comments in. To quote the great Roberto Duran, no mas.
Peter, by saying “we,” I was not referring to a specific ethnicity. “We” means we as a society, as fellow human beings. The guy was a monster, but monster or not, he was still our brother. I feel shame as well as sadness that one of our own (as in a fellow human being) committed such an atrocity. I felt the same way during the Oklahoma bombing, and I feel the same way about today’s massacre of nearly 200 people in Iraq.
There will be people who’d attribute all kinds of reasons to a tragedy (be it to fuel ethnic, religious or political prejudices or blame shifting/finger pointing, etc). Look, the man clearly lost his marbles. It could happen to anyone in any color/origins. There is no why, what and if. It has happened. Any fool who intends to use this unfortunate incident as an excuse to create further unnecessary repercussions should be made fully responsible for his own actions (unless he intend to plead insanity as well). Folks, give it a rest. Give consideration to the families of those who mourn and pray with them.
Actually very well said though… I’m living in a country where guns and weapons are not even permitted.. our outlet are only things on the internet and all…
it’s so true..
I actually feel so sorry for Cho though…
It is now time to support all of the families that has lost their sisters, daughter, mothers, brothers, sons and fathers. My prayers go out to all of them and my greatest prayer is for the Cho family. May all of us give a second look when we see a loanly person and extend an invitation for conversation.
Asian is the only ethnic group in America that is not considered American mainly because of physical traits. That is why Asians have to work 2 or 3 times harder to be accepted, therefore the stereotype of intelligience. However, the less ignorant people in Generation X is more likely to accept Asians as Americans. Let the healing begin…