I would venture to say you are still quite judgmental on the food topics (as well as others). I’m surprised by how much of this post of yours was dedicated to the food choices of others, particularly women, and your evaluations of them. Why not just eat the way you have chosen and LISTEN to the women who do not follow your path, being open to learning from them instead of desiring to change them? They might have something to teach you, but you seem very stuck in “teacher” and “mentor” role trying to figure out how you can teach them and show them your greater wisdom. While you may be well-read in feminism, as a woman, I find some of the things you write quite condescending and patronizing.

Eggs are a LOT less bad. You don’t have to kill a chicken, breed it or take nutrition away from another animal - chickens lay eggs anyway.

Of course, we have no reason to keep chickens or cows living if we don’t use them for milk or eggs–why not let them die out naturally?

The point being that veganism doesn’t have to be about self-denial and control. I’ve found that since I stopped eating meat I’ve actually gotten to eat more tasty and interesting meals, because I’ve had to think about what I wanted to eat instead of just going for the slab o’flesh. I suspect that the same thing can be true of veganism, though I admit that giving up really good cheese would be hard.

*Fair trade. Let’s not substitute oppression of animals for oppression of people.

It’s not about purity as much as it is about kindness for me. But health does factor into it as well.

Personally, as someone who’s worked alongside a lot of institutionalized charities, social workers and government projects to address poverty, I think that there’s a lot that the system could do to provide vegetarian or vegan options for people in poverty, but don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it’s possible for an individual to affect that change by themselves.

I do think there’s a lot of problems in the current system of support for people in Canada, though, as evidenced by the fact that homelessness and poverty are growing.

If your clients really are interested in finding ways to make a veg diet more affordable, one practical short-term solution I could think of (which may or may not be realistic for them, I don’t know) would be a buying co-op. Actually, in general, a buying co-op is a good idea as it can save a lot on food costs for a lot of people (and if bulk orders get big enough the distribution company can deliver it to someplace more accessible than fancy organic grocery stores). It takes a bit of time and energy to organize, but if the work is shared around enough people it can be done. If the buying co-op is mixed-income rather than low-income, perhaps some of the really time-consuming work could be done by people who can afford to take the time - it would also be a good way to make connections in the community.

I’ve also heard of a restaurant in Montreal (I think it’s called the chic resto, I don’t know if it’s still around but there’s a documentary about it) that collects food that other places don’t want and cooks affordable meals for a low-income community, while also bringing in enough money to create some jobs in the same community. A project like that requires a fairly large amount of startup money, and some people involved who are well off enough that they have the time to put into getting it goin, but once it’s going it can sustain itself.

Community gardens can also be helpful but from the sounds of your post your clients might not realistically have the time to maintain a garden or the space to do it on.

If your clients aren’t interested in a veg diet than personally I don’t think it’s something worth worrying about. Let people worry about non-exploitive consumption after they’ve managed to climb out from under exploitation themselves. There’s already too many hurdles people in poverty have to jump through in our society.

(I also just kind of want to mention that I’ve had plenty of tasty, healthy, nutritious, and safe meals out of dumpsters, and I think it really is a shame that our society wastes so much nutritious food when so many people are in need. Dumpstering has helped keep me healthy through periods of unemployment and underemployment, and it is something I do encourage others to do, with some caution about checking food carefully. I think the stigma attached to it is ridiculous. At the same time, I of course understand that in your institutional role it’s illegal to encourage it.)

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Hugo: This is a bit OT, but, I am interested in your response. I GET being a vegetarian, and I GET not wanting to torture animals in factory farming type situations et cetera. (I don’t want to be part of that either). But: IF (and I know you don’t) you had a big lot with your house, and a chicken house, where you had happy chickens you personally took care of (my mother did this, and I know a lot about it), what would be so wrong about eating their (sterile, un hatchable) eggs? If it is really about not causing suffering (and I think that is very noble and good, and I am an idealist myself, so I am not threatened by YOU trying to be GOOD (Some folks are! Threatened by people actively trying to be good I mean), what is the suffering in eating these sterile eggs made by your happy chicken pets?

I really don’t KNOW enough about milk and milking or apiary things; perhaps if you had your own cow or goat and milked it, that would be cruel. Like I said I don’t know whether milking is cruel (I think NOT milking makes cows suffer pain when they are USED to being milked, but that is entirely different, as it is depended on milking them in the first place). I guess my point is, is this about bodily PURITY, or not causing suffering? Because I am highly suspect of the whole Bodily purity thing, being as I am female and all. It’s been used against us, after all, for so long. Are you using it against yourself, perhaps?

That is a fair point. At the same time, someone who numbers certain animal products among their favorite foods is going to have a harder time making the leap to veg(etari)anism, even if he believes he’s doing the right thing.

I was a vegetarian (near vegan) for a couple of 1-1.5 year stretches of time and it didn’t necessarily feel like denial after I reached a certain equilibrium point. If it had felt like I was giving up something that I really loved to eat, it would have been a lot harder to practice, so I do agree with your idea of changed worldview (for me, that worldview dissipated after a certain point, and it became a lot harder to handle the self-imposed inconvenience).

as far as the poor thing goes, because this is something that bothers me a lot (when people talk about being veg as an elite option), i grew up poor too. my mom was a single mom, on welfare for much of my youth. we didn’t have a car and we didn’t even live in a large city so public transit was hard and slow. it took all day to go grocery shopping (for instance). and most of my diet was vegetarian. a can of kidney beans to throw in the pasta sauce was cheaper than hamburger, etc. a can of peas in a rice casserole instead of ham (or whatever most folks use). meat was the exception–exactly because it was expensive. a veg lifestyle is not an elite lifestyle. yes, there are folks who eat a lot of “convenience” foods (like protein bars, etc). but those things are not necessary.

anyone can, at least, reduce their meat consumption. the fact is most folks don’t want to.

I appreciate your comments about your experiences with poor vegans & the org. you volunteer with. And yes, I do agree that there are lots of cheap vegan options like beans for them to chose from. However, the people I work with are not homeless, but are the working poor, single mothers on social assistance, the physically & invisibly disabled, newcomers to Canada and seniors on limited pensions. They already have to travel on transit or foot to buy food, and for some the extensive reading of lables and scanning of ingrediants would be a poor use of time or beyond their English abilities. There are already so many barriers to preparing nutritious dishes for their families that I don’t have room for it here. And your suggestion of dumpster diving would be perceived by many in these situations as humiliating, condescending and crazy. I know that’s not how you meant it, and the people I work with may have indeed done this, but they would never admit it, and would have me up on human rights abuses for suggesting it!

Tyler makes a good comment:
“The challenge may be to get enough fresh foods and vitamin B12, especially on a tight budget that doesn’t allow for expensive/exotic ingredients or vitamin supplements.”
My point is that the disadvantaged are just that, and they don’t have Hugo’s ability/time to read the lables, spend money on supplements and energy bars (these are expensive!), travel longer distances to get the items, or even be close to vegan alternatives if they need food in an emergency situation. I’m not saying the poor or disadvantaged can’t do this, but for most, there are already so many struggles that it is just not worth it.