<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.3" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Boys, girls, the fag discourse and compulsive heterosexuality: a review of CJ Pascoe&#8217;s book</title>
	<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: robyn</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-71880</link>
		<dc:creator>robyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 04:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-71880</guid>
		<description>To make the outlandish jump that the real reason for the hatred of gays is actually hatred of women is so loony it's beyond ridiculous. Anyone who thinks that, has been soaking up way too much militant feminist nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To make the outlandish jump that the real reason for the hatred of gays is actually hatred of women is so loony it&#8217;s beyond ridiculous. Anyone who thinks that, has been soaking up way too much militant feminist nonsense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2007-05-30</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-62342</link>
		<dc:creator>Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2007-05-30</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 23:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-62342</guid>
		<description>[...] Boys, girls, the fag discourse and compulsive heterosexuality: a review of CJ Pascoe’s book at Hugo Schwyzer &#8220;Most adult men carry with them the wounds inflicted by the fag discourse in their youth - and many carry the guilt of the verbal and psychic violence they did to their peers.&#8221; (tags: books masculinity society gender homophobia harrassment) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Boys, girls, the fag discourse and compulsive heterosexuality: a review of CJ Pascoe’s book at Hugo Schwyzer &#8220;Most adult men carry with them the wounds inflicted by the fag discourse in their youth - and many carry the guilt of the verbal and psychic violence they did to their peers.&#8221; (tags: books masculinity society gender homophobia harrassment) [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ks</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-57574</link>
		<dc:creator>ks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 14:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-57574</guid>
		<description>I haven't read the book, but I work with high school students (I'm a substitute teacher for a middle sized midwestern city school district), mostly inner city kids, and those observations are dead on.  The boys will do their 'bonding' thing where they call each other (and other kids not present) fags or gay or some other feminizing insult, and/or they do the play fighting thing with the girls.  This isn't to minimize or downplay the damage that this sort of thing does to gender variant/homosexual kids, but these boys do imply (usually they directly cop to it) that being feminine or a girl is a very, very bad thing.

And it does happen in the classrooms quite often, especially when there is a sub present, because the kids tend to think that because I'm not the regular teacher, the regular standards of behavior don't apply.  This basically means that I tend to have to deal with a lot more discipline issues and a lot more of this kind of behavior than the regular teachers to.  Quite frankly, it's depressing and I'm not really sure how to address it other than the general discipline referral/sending the kid out/letting them know that I won't tolerate that kind of behavior route because I'm typically not around long enough to form anything other than a casual relationship with the kids where I could help them to find other, more constructive ways to deal with this kind of pressure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read the book, but I work with high school students (I&#8217;m a substitute teacher for a middle sized midwestern city school district), mostly inner city kids, and those observations are dead on.  The boys will do their &#8216;bonding&#8217; thing where they call each other (and other kids not present) fags or gay or some other feminizing insult, and/or they do the play fighting thing with the girls.  This isn&#8217;t to minimize or downplay the damage that this sort of thing does to gender variant/homosexual kids, but these boys do imply (usually they directly cop to it) that being feminine or a girl is a very, very bad thing.</p>
<p>And it does happen in the classrooms quite often, especially when there is a sub present, because the kids tend to think that because I&#8217;m not the regular teacher, the regular standards of behavior don&#8217;t apply.  This basically means that I tend to have to deal with a lot more discipline issues and a lot more of this kind of behavior than the regular teachers to.  Quite frankly, it&#8217;s depressing and I&#8217;m not really sure how to address it other than the general discipline referral/sending the kid out/letting them know that I won&#8217;t tolerate that kind of behavior route because I&#8217;m typically not around long enough to form anything other than a casual relationship with the kids where I could help them to find other, more constructive ways to deal with this kind of pressure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hugo Schwyzer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-57133</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schwyzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 15:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-57133</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for visiting, C.J.  Indeed, I didn't wish to imply that suffering is a zero-sum game.  But I think it's valid to note that as you say, girls don't have the same resources as the boys do to use the discourse to their advantage.  And in the current wave of "boys are victimized while girls get all the breaks" books, it's refreshing to read a vital corrective.

Your book fills an important niche, and I'm recommending it far and wide.

Hurrah for being back at Cal.  Not that Tacoma doesn't have its charms, I'm sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for visiting, C.J.  Indeed, I didn&#8217;t wish to imply that suffering is a zero-sum game.  But I think it&#8217;s valid to note that as you say, girls don&#8217;t have the same resources as the boys do to use the discourse to their advantage.  And in the current wave of &#8220;boys are victimized while girls get all the breaks&#8221; books, it&#8217;s refreshing to read a vital corrective.</p>
<p>Your book fills an important niche, and I&#8217;m recommending it far and wide.</p>
<p>Hurrah for being back at Cal.  Not that Tacoma doesn&#8217;t have its charms, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CJ Pascoe</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-57123</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ Pascoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 14:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-57123</guid>
		<description>I suppose, given that I wrote the book,  I should weigh in here.  

First, let me say thank you Hugo for such a generous and insightful review.  It's always a heartwarming moment for me when I read a review and see my thoughts summed up and rephrased in a much more elegant way!   Thank you for taking the time and the care to do so, Hugh.  I'm very honored.

I'm grateful that I was able to communicate clearly about the toll I saw the "fag discourse" and "compulsive heterosexuality" take on teenage girls.  I didn't want to repeat the "boys-as-victims" discourse I had seen gaining momentum over the past decade.  Indeed, my data indicated that while boys did suffer from the fag discourse, many of them gained social status by engaging in it.  Girls could not trade on "compulsive heterosexuality" and the "fag discourse" in the same way.  Many (though certainly not all) boys were able to jockey for dominance by engaging in heterosexist and homophobic practices.  

That said, boys also suffer.  It's not a zero sum game.  In other words I don't want to pit boys versus girls in terms of who gets victimized more. All of our youth suffer to the extent that we continue to define masculinity based on these practices of repudiation weakness and incompetence and confirmation of sexualized dominance.  I think Ricky's story (bless him) indicates how boys (especially gender variant or gay boys) can be tormented mercilessly.  Indeed the fact that 90% of random school shootings over the past 15 years involved boys who were relentlessly teased for being fags or gay (See Michael Kimmel's fabulous analysis of this) shows how much boys do suffer from these insults.

An apology about the jargon: alas, we sociologists have to speak in the language of our trade.  I tried to strike a balance such that academics and parents/teachers etc could all enjoy the book.  And one final note, my institutional affiliation has changed.  I'm actually at the Institute for the Study of Social Change at UC Berkeley.

Thank you again for the review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose, given that I wrote the book,  I should weigh in here.  </p>
<p>First, let me say thank you Hugo for such a generous and insightful review.  It&#8217;s always a heartwarming moment for me when I read a review and see my thoughts summed up and rephrased in a much more elegant way!   Thank you for taking the time and the care to do so, Hugh.  I&#8217;m very honored.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m grateful that I was able to communicate clearly about the toll I saw the &#8220;fag discourse&#8221; and &#8220;compulsive heterosexuality&#8221; take on teenage girls.  I didn&#8217;t want to repeat the &#8220;boys-as-victims&#8221; discourse I had seen gaining momentum over the past decade.  Indeed, my data indicated that while boys did suffer from the fag discourse, many of them gained social status by engaging in it.  Girls could not trade on &#8220;compulsive heterosexuality&#8221; and the &#8220;fag discourse&#8221; in the same way.  Many (though certainly not all) boys were able to jockey for dominance by engaging in heterosexist and homophobic practices.  </p>
<p>That said, boys also suffer.  It&#8217;s not a zero sum game.  In other words I don&#8217;t want to pit boys versus girls in terms of who gets victimized more. All of our youth suffer to the extent that we continue to define masculinity based on these practices of repudiation weakness and incompetence and confirmation of sexualized dominance.  I think Ricky&#8217;s story (bless him) indicates how boys (especially gender variant or gay boys) can be tormented mercilessly.  Indeed the fact that 90% of random school shootings over the past 15 years involved boys who were relentlessly teased for being fags or gay (See Michael Kimmel&#8217;s fabulous analysis of this) shows how much boys do suffer from these insults.</p>
<p>An apology about the jargon: alas, we sociologists have to speak in the language of our trade.  I tried to strike a balance such that academics and parents/teachers etc could all enjoy the book.  And one final note, my institutional affiliation has changed.  I&#8217;m actually at the Institute for the Study of Social Change at UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>Thank you again for the review.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: NBarnes</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-57005</link>
		<dc:creator>NBarnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 07:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-57005</guid>
		<description>Subi: Huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Subi: Huh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Subi</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-56984</link>
		<dc:creator>Subi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 06:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-56984</guid>
		<description>Another good review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another good review.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tyler D</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-56892</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 01:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-56892</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Gay men I have observed over my many years of being an out gay man have even bought into this American hyper-masculine worship. They will often try and act masculine, and will on chat lines make certain that the gay man they are talking to knows that they are the masculine type.&lt;/i&gt;

In some respects, one could view gay men as exhibiting even more potential for pure social masculinity than straight men.

Unlike straight men, who generally want to associate with women to form relationships (or at least to have sex with partners of their chosen gender), gay men don't have the same desire. In principle, therefore, gay men can form an isolated, woman-free subculture and peer group.

Many of the most iconic and enduring images of gay male culture are also exaggerated in their level of masculine sexuality - think Tom of Finland, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Gay men I have observed over my many years of being an out gay man have even bought into this American hyper-masculine worship. They will often try and act masculine, and will on chat lines make certain that the gay man they are talking to knows that they are the masculine type.</i></p>
<p>In some respects, one could view gay men as exhibiting even more potential for pure social masculinity than straight men.</p>
<p>Unlike straight men, who generally want to associate with women to form relationships (or at least to have sex with partners of their chosen gender), gay men don&#8217;t have the same desire. In principle, therefore, gay men can form an isolated, woman-free subculture and peer group.</p>
<p>Many of the most iconic and enduring images of gay male culture are also exaggerated in their level of masculine sexuality - think Tom of Finland, for example.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aphrael</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-56889</link>
		<dc:creator>aphrael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 01:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-56889</guid>
		<description>Hugo: I would argue that &lt;em&gt;closeted gay boys&lt;/em&gt;, who observe the fag discourse and, as a result, are scared off of admitting their homosexuality to themselves, are the chief victims of the discourse. What makes it worse is that it's largely an unintentional victimization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugo: I would argue that <em>closeted gay boys</em>, who observe the fag discourse and, as a result, are scared off of admitting their homosexuality to themselves, are the chief victims of the discourse. What makes it worse is that it&#8217;s largely an unintentional victimization.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hugo Schwyzer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-56882</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schwyzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 00:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/16/boys-girls-the-fag-discourse-and-compulsive-heterosexuality-a-review-of-cj-pascoes-book/#comment-56882</guid>
		<description>Look, the fact that women are the chief victims of the discourse doesn't mean men aren't being hurt, and don't deserve compassionate intervention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, the fact that women are the chief victims of the discourse doesn&#8217;t mean men aren&#8217;t being hurt, and don&#8217;t deserve compassionate intervention.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
