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	<title>Comments on: A covenant with my eyes: some long thoughts on looking</title>
	<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lasantha</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-298497</link>
		<dc:creator>Lasantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-298497</guid>
		<description>I would like to broach the subject of why an attractive young woman of South Asian origin would want to be obsessed with ogling European men or men with very fair skin despite having a very healthy and satisfying sexual relationship with her partner of the same ethnic origin. 

While a quick furtive glance at an attractive male is said to be adequate from a woman's perspective, to assess or "enjoy" the momentary vision of someone of the opposite sex, this type of compulsive obsession to stare intently at (mostly) young white skinned males would seem like a borderline personality disorder where the resistance to this urge might result in uncontrolled levels of distress or anxiety.

I would like to hear of any others who might have personal experience of this or know of instances where it has been evident, as the medical/ psychological fraternity does not seem to have much data of clinical evidence in this area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to broach the subject of why an attractive young woman of South Asian origin would want to be obsessed with ogling European men or men with very fair skin despite having a very healthy and satisfying sexual relationship with her partner of the same ethnic origin. </p>
<p>While a quick furtive glance at an attractive male is said to be adequate from a woman&#8217;s perspective, to assess or &#8220;enjoy&#8221; the momentary vision of someone of the opposite sex, this type of compulsive obsession to stare intently at (mostly) young white skinned males would seem like a borderline personality disorder where the resistance to this urge might result in uncontrolled levels of distress or anxiety.</p>
<p>I would like to hear of any others who might have personal experience of this or know of instances where it has been evident, as the medical/ psychological fraternity does not seem to have much data of clinical evidence in this area.</p>
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		<title>By: Emille</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-119556</link>
		<dc:creator>Emille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-119556</guid>
		<description>I can certainly appreciate that women get creeped out by ogling men, and that men are famous for inappropriate glances or gazes.  No question about that.

I'd like to hear comments from women on a subject that has long been a source of confusion to me.  The comments I'm hearing in this post indicate a woman's discomfort with a man's glance, yet with increasing frequency these days, I'm finding it hard to keep my eyes looking above the shoulders with the all the plunging necklines, lowered pant waists, short skirts, etc.  

When women dress the way they do these days and then complain about men looking at them, I find it confusing (correctly or incorrectly assuming by this statement, that some women who have posted dress this way).  What are the expectations of women who dress like this?  What are the motives behind it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can certainly appreciate that women get creeped out by ogling men, and that men are famous for inappropriate glances or gazes.  No question about that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to hear comments from women on a subject that has long been a source of confusion to me.  The comments I&#8217;m hearing in this post indicate a woman&#8217;s discomfort with a man&#8217;s glance, yet with increasing frequency these days, I&#8217;m finding it hard to keep my eyes looking above the shoulders with the all the plunging necklines, lowered pant waists, short skirts, etc.  </p>
<p>When women dress the way they do these days and then complain about men looking at them, I find it confusing (correctly or incorrectly assuming by this statement, that some women who have posted dress this way).  What are the expectations of women who dress like this?  What are the motives behind it?</p>
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		<title>By: Vee</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-118972</link>
		<dc:creator>Vee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-118972</guid>
		<description>Having been objectified and stared at by highly educated and successful men of ages ranging from 25 - 53, I have now reached a conclusion that men/people who stare have no self respect to be able to respect beauty in others.  Such people behave in a desperate manner and suffer from self esteem issues.  I really appreciate the above blog, coming from a man himself and would love it if men in general would learn to treat beautiful women as people rather than stare at them as objects of desire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having been objectified and stared at by highly educated and successful men of ages ranging from 25 - 53, I have now reached a conclusion that men/people who stare have no self respect to be able to respect beauty in others.  Such people behave in a desperate manner and suffer from self esteem issues.  I really appreciate the above blog, coming from a man himself and would love it if men in general would learn to treat beautiful women as people rather than stare at them as objects of desire.</p>
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		<title>By: Skylark</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-78636</link>
		<dc:creator>Skylark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-78636</guid>
		<description>Considering that far more women (and children) are molested/assaulted/raped by men they know than strangers on the street, your last statement actually rings rather true, mythago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering that far more women (and children) are molested/assaulted/raped by men they know than strangers on the street, your last statement actually rings rather true, mythago.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-78268</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-78268</guid>
		<description>Skylark, ask your friend

--how would you feel if your fourteen-year-old daughter had men she didn't know wolf-whistle her or call "Baby, where you going?" to her on the street?

--how would you feel if a gay man twice your size were catcalling you, etc.?

Your friend is also an idiot because he cannot distinguish between compliments from friends, and commentary from strangers whose intent you don't know. Is he really trying to say that he's just as likely to be a harasser or rapist as some random guy on the street yelling "Baby, where you going"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skylark, ask your friend</p>
<p>&#8211;how would you feel if your fourteen-year-old daughter had men she didn&#8217;t know wolf-whistle her or call &#8220;Baby, where you going?&#8221; to her on the street?</p>
<p>&#8211;how would you feel if a gay man twice your size were catcalling you, etc.?</p>
<p>Your friend is also an idiot because he cannot distinguish between compliments from friends, and commentary from strangers whose intent you don&#8217;t know. Is he really trying to say that he&#8217;s just as likely to be a harasser or rapist as some random guy on the street yelling &#8220;Baby, where you going&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Bach-us</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-77266</link>
		<dc:creator>Bach-us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 20:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-77266</guid>
		<description>Skylark, first of all, "Baby, where you going?" is not a compliment. It's a neutral question with negative or positive connotations depending on the situation.

If your friend can place his name or a coveted object (car, coffee table, video game) in the grammatical position of the woman in that sentence, it's hardly a compliment. How many people say to a car on the lot, "You look nice," or "That's a good color for you," or "I like your hair"? "How do you get your hair to do that?" is not a compliment.

The astute reader can recognize necessary elements for a compliment, and the most basic of these is a positive statement. One may split hairs over determining the positive or negative intent of wolf whistles and catcalls, although if a man on the street sought clarity of meaning, the non-verbal option is not a well-reasoned choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skylark, first of all, &#8220;Baby, where you going?&#8221; is not a compliment. It&#8217;s a neutral question with negative or positive connotations depending on the situation.</p>
<p>If your friend can place his name or a coveted object (car, coffee table, video game) in the grammatical position of the woman in that sentence, it&#8217;s hardly a compliment. How many people say to a car on the lot, &#8220;You look nice,&#8221; or &#8220;That&#8217;s a good color for you,&#8221; or &#8220;I like your hair&#8221;? &#8220;How do you get your hair to do that?&#8221; is not a compliment.</p>
<p>The astute reader can recognize necessary elements for a compliment, and the most basic of these is a positive statement. One may split hairs over determining the positive or negative intent of wolf whistles and catcalls, although if a man on the street sought clarity of meaning, the non-verbal option is not a well-reasoned choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Skylark</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-77234</link>
		<dc:creator>Skylark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-77234</guid>
		<description>I told one of my male friends how uncomfortable I felt with wolf whistles and catcalls, and he responded, "But you like it when I tell you you look great, right?"

"Sure," I replied, "But I already know you value me for more than what I look like. All I know about a random man on the street calling 'Baby, where you going?' is he wants me sexually or at least wants me to think he does."

My friend said I was judging the man based on too limited data. Then he said it was hypocritical to enjoy compliments from friends but reject them from strangers.

Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I told one of my male friends how uncomfortable I felt with wolf whistles and catcalls, and he responded, &#8220;But you like it when I tell you you look great, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Sure,&#8221; I replied, &#8220;But I already know you value me for more than what I look like. All I know about a random man on the street calling &#8216;Baby, where you going?&#8217; is he wants me sexually or at least wants me to think he does.&#8221;</p>
<p>My friend said I was judging the man based on too limited data. Then he said it was hypocritical to enjoy compliments from friends but reject them from strangers.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Catty</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-76448</link>
		<dc:creator>Catty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-76448</guid>
		<description>Mythago,

I second you.  As a very small (4'10") asian woman, I've been on the receiving end of really aggressive leering (I think my race/stature seem to embolden certain types of men), and it's an incredibly distressing experience on the receiving end and often, it's not innocuous- it's threatening.  After working at bars, mens that leer extensively are far more likely to attempt to follow me home, etc.  

He isn't ogling her at this point- if I was the blonde woman, I would consider his staring to be threatening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mythago,</p>
<p>I second you.  As a very small (4&#8242;10&#8243;) asian woman, I&#8217;ve been on the receiving end of really aggressive leering (I think my race/stature seem to embolden certain types of men), and it&#8217;s an incredibly distressing experience on the receiving end and often, it&#8217;s not innocuous- it&#8217;s threatening.  After working at bars, mens that leer extensively are far more likely to attempt to follow me home, etc.  </p>
<p>He isn&#8217;t ogling her at this point- if I was the blonde woman, I would consider his staring to be threatening.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-76407</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-76407</guid>
		<description>Hugo, I swear I am going to drive down to Pasadena and slap you upside the head everytime you use the phrase "Judeo-Christian".

That said--this guy has way bigger problems than a thing for young blondes. He isn't just ogling this woman--he is going out of his way to sit and stare at her long periods of time, over and over, to the point of affecting his worship as well as his marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugo, I swear I am going to drive down to Pasadena and slap you upside the head everytime you use the phrase &#8220;Judeo-Christian&#8221;.</p>
<p>That said&#8211;this guy has way bigger problems than a thing for young blondes. He isn&#8217;t just ogling this woman&#8211;he is going out of his way to sit and stare at her long periods of time, over and over, to the point of affecting his worship as well as his marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugo Schwyzer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-76058</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schwyzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/07/02/a-covenant-with-my-eyes-some-long-thoughts-on-looking/#comment-76058</guid>
		<description>Well, of course he should knock it off because Marian doesn't like it.  But he shouldn't do it even if she doesn't notice.  I am arguing that fidelity extends beyond our actions to our thoughts, and that is hardly unconventional -- it's deeply rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition, with the tenth commandment and Jesus' remark about "lust in the heart."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, of course he should knock it off because Marian doesn&#8217;t like it.  But he shouldn&#8217;t do it even if she doesn&#8217;t notice.  I am arguing that fidelity extends beyond our actions to our thoughts, and that is hardly unconventional &#8212; it&#8217;s deeply rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition, with the tenth commandment and Jesus&#8217; remark about &#8220;lust in the heart.&#8221;</p>
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