I get disturbed when I see on T.V (drama series, movies) women initially saying a half-hearted “no” but physically responding - or else seeing when the guy doesn’t stop pressing her/kissing her, that she ‘gives in’.

On T.V a “no” that is not strong is not a “no” - there is this message that women really want sex but they don’t want to be seen as promiscuous, so they say “no” but respond physically and have sex anyway.

If in doubt, guys should assume the woman means “no”. If she says “no” but she’s acting like she wants to go on (which I see a lot on T.V) they should stop, look at her, then ask her if she really means “no”.

“no” needs to be a powerful word.

The legal concept of consent is sound and is the only workable definition consonant with due process. Consent is often difficult for a jury to determine, but so are many other things in the law.

The legal concept of consent is sound and is the only workable definition consonant with due process. Consent is often difficult for a jury to

This stuff is all a little old, as in the discussions have died down, but still interesting… There was a righteous feminist furor in late August over Cosmo’s “gray rape” article (in which everyone mentioned clearly said “no”, so… what’s gray …

But if this thread does revive, let’s try and keep it off romance novels!

So, you read “a dozen or so” of a genre that includes hundreds of books published per year and now presume to understand it?

If you’re actually interested in learning more about sexual dynamics in romance novels, rather than simply scoring cheap points on a blog, can I suggest that you take some time to learn a bit about the genre?

Radway is generally considered outdated, but the anthology Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women would be a good place to start.

The blog “Smart Bitches, Trashy Books” would also be a good place to learn how actual romance readers experience these books. This thread directly addresses some of the issues you raised. Teach Me Tonight is a blog run by academics studying romance novels, and would be another place to start learning about what you’re criticizing.

Frankly, I read what you’ve written as another attempt to maintain that the responsibility of sexual gatekeeping should fall solely on women. Women don’t need to be told that if they only said no in the “right way” men would understand it better…trust me, we’re bombarded with messages that if men don’t get the message, it must be our fault. There is, however, a severe shortage of people willing to stand up and say that men’s responsibilities extend beyond avoiding actions that fit the legal definition of rape. Thanks, Hugo, for being one of them.