Comments on: The “three guy” rule: the third post in a series on numbness, growth, and male transformation http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/ Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:44:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Sertorius http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-140896 Sertorius Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:45:03 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-140896 In order to be a mentor, you have to show that your system work. One reason that Leykis is a succesful mentor is that he had a system which does in fact work. You may not like it, but those are the facts. In order to be a mentor, you have to show that your system work. One reason that Leykis is a succesful mentor is that he had a system which does in fact work. You may not like it, but those are the facts.

]]> By: Sweating Through Fog http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-135934 Sweating Through Fog Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:14:59 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-135934 Hugo, I had my doubts about this piece as I read the first two parts, but I think you are spot on with the third. Mentoring is essential. Men judge their own masculinity by how other men see them, and we need more positive, life-affirming men to balance the scales. I've been fortunate in my life to be involved in mens group for the past decade. I am not in recovery, but most of the men in my group are. Men who have been successful with recovery are outstanding mentors. Recovery demands a daily confrontation with yourself, a deep and intimate knowledge of your flaws, and it seems to require building a foundation of inner confidence and faith in yourself. Sometimes I feel like a new draftee listening to battle-hardened veterans - where the battle isn't part of an outer war but rather an inner one. Like I say, I'm not in recovery, but these men are excellent models of learning to stand firmly with themselves. Some of them are younger than me, so it is important to realize that mentoring isn't about chronological age. There are lots of younger men that are more mature than I am. Regarding mythopoetic weekends and imitation I've been there, both as in initiate and an initiator. I consider my weekend one of the transformative experiences of my life. It opened many emotional doors for me, not the least of which it lead me to my current mens group. You are quite correct that just a single weekend or single ecstatic experience does nothing if it is not built upon and integrated into your daily life. I've also been thinking about the "Leykis libertines" that have been discussed. Perhaps the game isn't lost. Just because a young man goes down this road doesn't mean they'll stay on it. I'm reminded of the Amish, and their notion of Rumspringa. Many Amish let their young drift away from their community, even with the knowledge that letting them "go with the English" mean that some are lost forever. The benefit of this is that when they come back and accept baptism it is done with a clear knowledge of what they are giving up. My point is that while a "Leykis libertine" does some harm, both to the young man and others, the experience can form the basis of a later maturity. Hugo,

I had my doubts about this piece as I read the first two parts, but I think you are spot on with the third. Mentoring is essential. Men judge their own masculinity by how other men see them, and we need more positive, life-affirming men to balance the scales.

I’ve been fortunate in my life to be involved in mens group for the past decade. I am not in recovery, but most of the men in my group are. Men who have been successful with recovery are outstanding mentors. Recovery demands a daily confrontation with yourself, a deep and intimate knowledge of your flaws, and it seems to require building a foundation of inner confidence and faith in yourself. Sometimes I feel like a new draftee listening to battle-hardened veterans - where the battle isn’t part of an outer war but rather an inner one. Like I say, I’m not in recovery, but these men are excellent models of learning to stand firmly with themselves. Some of them are younger than me, so it is important to realize that mentoring isn’t about chronological age. There are lots of younger men that are more mature than I am.

Regarding mythopoetic weekends and imitation I’ve been there, both as in initiate and an initiator. I consider my weekend one of the transformative experiences of my life. It opened many emotional doors for me, not the least of which it lead me to my current mens group. You are quite correct that just a single weekend or single ecstatic experience does nothing if it is not built upon and integrated into your daily life.

I’ve also been thinking about the “Leykis libertines” that have been discussed. Perhaps the game isn’t lost. Just because a young man goes down this road doesn’t mean they’ll stay on it. I’m reminded of the Amish, and their notion of Rumspringa. Many Amish let their young drift away from their community, even with the knowledge that letting them “go with the English” mean that some are lost forever. The benefit of this is that when they come back and accept baptism it is done with a clear knowledge of what they are giving up. My point is that while a “Leykis libertine” does some harm, both to the young man and others, the experience can form the basis of a later maturity.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-135927 Hugo Schwyzer Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:04:59 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-135927 No one says that they need to. The goal is transformation. Recreation needs to be that "re-creation", to make an enduring new self. Of course we're human and on some level fairly simple, and of course we need to have fun and rest -- but the goal needs to be radical change. No one says that they need to. The goal is transformation. Recreation needs to be that “re-creation”, to make an enduring new self. Of course we’re human and on some level fairly simple, and of course we need to have fun and rest — but the goal needs to be radical change.

]]> By: Flippanter http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-135919 Flippanter Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:51:53 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-135919 <i>What good is it to go to the mountains and get in touch with cathartic Wildness if by Tuesday you’re back at work, griping and gossipping and grimly enduring?</i> Cut the quotidian some slack, Hugo. Even WWI flying aces and wandering <i>ronin</i> of the Tokugawa period -- or, to take a less martial example, even Saint Francis -- didn't live at the sword's burning edge of intensity at every moment of every day. What good is it to go to the mountains and get in touch with cathartic Wildness if by Tuesday you’re back at work, griping and gossipping and grimly enduring?

Cut the quotidian some slack, Hugo. Even WWI flying aces and wandering ronin of the Tokugawa period — or, to take a less martial example, even Saint Francis — didn’t live at the sword’s burning edge of intensity at every moment of every day.

]]> By: aphrael http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-135898 aphrael Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:13:57 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/10/26/the-three-guy-rule-the-third-post-in-a-series-on-numbness-growth-and-male-transformation/#comment-135898 I envy you the option. I envy you the option.

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