Wait, what?

As for the rest of your comment, LB, I would certainly hope that C. on your list comes before having an affair. And while the sentiment behind your post makes sense (wanting to enter into a marriage being on the same page about your sex life) I’m not sure most people would respond well to their significant other making bulleted lists about their expectations. Making sure you’re on the same page about important things in life (sex, finances, children, religion, etc.) is part of dating and is usually focused on the COUPLE, not YOURSELF (ie - “If we came to a point where you didn’t want to have sex with me anymore, I’d want to make sure your health isn’t in danger or that we’re not having other marital problems,” not, “ME ME ME MY PENIS.”) Marriage isn’t a list of “terms,” it’s a relationship of give-and-takes.

terms for my wife-to-be prior to marriage:

In the event that your libido drops way below my own, to the

point where you no longer wish to sleep with me at least 2-3

times a month (unless we both agree to less) you have three

options.

A: On occasion (not every time I’m horny, and not if our

relationship is going through some serious crisis) give me sex

even if your not in the mood, this may not necessarily mean

intercourse and may be a “tide me over” blow-job hand-job, or

some other form of sex play.

B: Allow me to have an affair/masturbate to porn/go to strip

clubs and get lapdances etc.

C: Make a reasonable effort to work with me to get to the

bottom of why you no longer want to have sex with me, and

rectify it. If no progress is made within a resonable amount

of time then do A or B.

If she doesnt like these terms or breaks up with me as a

result, then I doubt I missed out on something.

No I dont think I’m a pratt for thinking this way. Would you

want to marry someone who thinks it okay to beat their wives

(”I’m not saying I would do it to you honey I just think

theres a time when the bitch deserves it”)? Or if you want a

less dramatic example, someone who believes a husband shouldnt

have to shower before sex? Well in the same way I dont want to

be trapped in a marriage where I will be unhappy, and I risk

that if i marry someone who thinks along the lines of this

articles critics (which basically amounts to saying “His

sexual needs DON’T MATTER”). A marriage of forced celibacy or

near-celibacy is not something I want to or feel I should have

to endure.

discuss.

You make an excellent point. Making love with your spouse is certainly more powerful and significant than the quotidian “lots of things that I do not want to do” that we face daily. It should be viewed as sacred and profound, as you have pointed out.

This important distinction helps the point that I am trying to make. To deny your partner such an essential part of their existence on a consistent basis is cruel, damaging, and heartless. Particularly if he or she is making an attempt to reach out and rectify the situation. We are not talking about just “something” or “anything” that is being denied, it is certainly much more than that.

To avoid vague and fluffy language, when you are telling your spouse on a consistent basis that you are interested in “sex that they do not want to have”, you are also rejecting your partner and his or her confidence and love and destroying the trusting bond upon which the marriage was founded. Pretty stark when you look this in the face as well.

Speaking from strictly anecdotal experience, I have a completely different sampling of relationships with low libido partners; many of the people in my husband’s support groups experience libido side effects from medications which they nevertheless need to take; that is neither the fault of the higher libido partner for being terrible in bed, nor the fault of the lower libido partner for wilfully not investing enough in their sex life.

On the other hand, I thought I was low libido all through my single life because I was always running into men who claimed to be interested in sex with far more partners than I could ever imagine sleeping with; I’m less convinced, now that I’m married, that my libido is all that low. So, whether your libido is low or high does depend on circumstances (but those circumstances can be biological, as with medication side effects, as well as social).

No, that’s not the position of the “lower-libido” partner, and nor is it the case that declining sex at a particular time for a particular reason necessarily has anything to do with a low libido. Let’s try this one more time. We are all aware that you have to do lots of things you don’t want to do, in life and in marriage. Every decent person does things they don’t want to do, every day–yes, even people who don’t put out on command.

Try stepping away from the easy, comforting “anything I don’t want to do” generalities for a second and put it in concrete terms. You’re not talking about having somebody do “something” or “anything” they don’t want to. You’re talking about having them have sex they don’t want to have. Not quite so vague and fluffy, when you look it in the face.

I’ll never forget the breakthrough…a few years ago.

After months of resentment and frustration, I just came right out and said…”there’s the hole..go for it…let me know if it wasn’t good for you, because I’d feel real bad if you weren’t happy.”

In a nutshell. I know what to do, and how to do it, and I do it well. The Better Half got lazy and selfish, and I lost interest and motivation.

These days, he’s motivated and I’m interested, but had he ever threatened me with “put out or I’m gone”…the BH’s ass would have been out the door.

The follow-up, dealing with how the lower-desire partner can respond in ways that are healthy and not shaming to the self or the other, will come next week sometime.

From a high libido standpoint, the wrong perspective is “well, we are married, so I am entitled to sex regardless of my loutish behavior and lack of respect, interest, and affection for my spouse”. I am simply arguing that, from a low libido standpoint, the position of “I don’t feel like it now (or for the last two weeks), nor do I ever have to do anything I don’t want to do” leads to equally disastrous results.

I suspect that the reality of most troubled marriages on this viewpoint is that there is probably too much of both of these attitudes. I don’t believe either one is defensible, thus my concern with Hugo’s position on this, which implies that one is less problematic than the other. If either spouse feels like their position in this impasse is more “right”, it perpetuates the problem.

Incidentally, if it sounds like I know too much about this, I do. I lived through a season of it with my wife for five or six years. It was only after we accepted Christ, began learning and discussing this topic through small groups and Christian friends, and praying about it that we got through it. It is a cancerous, painful condition with plenty of blame to go around. It leaves a legacy of mistrust that takes effort, love, and prayer to overcome.

My primary concern, leading to my posting extensively on a relatively obscure website that I happened across, is that to posit that one side of the relationship is more defensible than the other is worse than wrong. I think it makes the problem more intractible, discouraging the kind of loving compromise necessary by giving one side of the discussion the perception of being on the moral high ground.

Hugo, I look forward to your next posting. I hope I have contributed to the discussion. Without having lived the emotions of it, one should take caution in issuing theoretical frameworks which may not exhibit equal compassion for all involved in the sad situation.

And I have to say, it absolutely is disheartening to be repeatedly shot down by a partner. I’m not saying I want to be physical with someone who has no interest in doing so, but it bruises ones’ feelings to feel that your partner is simply not physically interested in you at all.

That said, you’re right, no one has “claims” on your body but you.