Comments on: Once was lost, but now I still am: some thoughts on conversion and remaining teachable http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/ Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:25:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: mythago http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158501 mythago Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:07:08 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158501 Married Tom has a good point. If Keith is seeing this as a power struggle where he "loses" by admitting he's being a jerk, there's nothing you can do. If you and Clive back off, and make it clear that you're praying for him and you're there for him, he may have more breathing room to admit his error. Married Tom has a good point. If Keith is seeing this as a power struggle where he “loses” by admitting he’s being a jerk, there’s nothing you can do. If you and Clive back off, and make it clear that you’re praying for him and you’re there for him, he may have more breathing room to admit his error.

]]> By: Married Tom http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158497 Married Tom Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:00:50 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158497 The "blind but now can see" doesn't always mean you get the big picture. You probably know the two main things you can do for your friend. 1) Pray for him and 2) Let him know you are there. I know that I did not appreciate Christ's gift until after I had lived a sin-filled, narcissistic lifestyle (that was successful by most material measures) and fought the hole that it created in my heart until I could no longer do so. Had I been brought up Christian (or converted as an adolescent), I am not sure I would have fully appreciated th healing power of His forgiveness. Some are able to live their life without regressing into a less-than-model lifestyle despite the temptations and stresses of life. Most struggle, regress, and hopefully pray and come through the experience a better person. Those who receive Christ later in life are, I think, much more capable of witnessing to other seekers than those who were Christian their whole life. Similarly, assuming this is a detour in your friend's life and not a permanent road, he will be much more grateful and his perspective may be more valuable to others suffering similar regressions. Your friend's avoidance of accountability implies that he is fully aware of what he is doing, and that it is wrong. I would be more concerned if he outright took pride in his actions or denounced his prior beliefs in any way. Assuming he has not done so, he is working through a difficult time and still has his compass, presumably. Pray that he comes around, a lot, and be there for him when he needs you. The “blind but now can see” doesn’t always mean you get the big picture.

You probably know the two main things you can do for your friend. 1) Pray for him and 2) Let him know you are there.

I know that I did not appreciate Christ’s gift until after I had lived a sin-filled, narcissistic lifestyle (that was successful by most material measures) and fought the hole that it created in my heart until I could no longer do so.

Had I been brought up Christian (or converted as an adolescent), I am not sure I would have fully appreciated th healing power of His forgiveness. Some are able to live their life without regressing into a less-than-model lifestyle despite the temptations and stresses of life. Most struggle, regress, and hopefully pray and come through the experience a better person.

Those who receive Christ later in life are, I think, much more capable of witnessing to other seekers than those who were Christian their whole life. Similarly, assuming this is a detour in your friend’s life and not a permanent road, he will be much more grateful and his perspective may be more valuable to others suffering similar regressions.

Your friend’s avoidance of accountability implies that he is fully aware of what he is doing, and that it is wrong. I would be more concerned if he outright took pride in his actions or denounced his prior beliefs in any way. Assuming he has not done so, he is working through a difficult time and still has his compass, presumably. Pray that he comes around, a lot, and be there for him when he needs you.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158050 Hugo Schwyzer Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:11:35 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158050 Thanks, Daisy; yes, if you spend some time with seminarians, you do get to study a wee bit of Hebrew. And the story of Jacob wrestling with the Angel -- perhaps the most mysterious part of the entire book of Genesis -- is a good one to remember. We are a wrestling people. Thanks, Daisy; yes, if you spend some time with seminarians, you do get to study a wee bit of Hebrew. And the story of Jacob wrestling with the Angel — perhaps the most mysterious part of the entire book of Genesis — is a good one to remember. We are a wrestling people.

]]> By: Daisy Bond http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158012 Daisy Bond Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:06:26 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158012 Meaning, everyone is still lost, and always will be. The point is always continuing to search for God (substitute understanding, justice, peace, love), even if you've already "found" her. Meaning, everyone is still lost, and always will be. The point is always continuing to search for God (substitute understanding, justice, peace, love), even if you’ve already “found” her.

]]> By: Daisy Bond http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158009 Daisy Bond Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:03:20 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/11/27/once-was-lost-but-now-i-still-am-some-thoughts-on-conversion-and-remaining-teachable/#comment-158009 This seems to me to be exactly the same as what might be my favorite idea in Judaism, which I cling to even when I reject the concept of "God." As you probably know (do they talk about Hebrew etymologies in Christianity? they should, it's fascinating), the word "Israel" means "one who struggles with God." This was taught to me to mean that having a relationship with God doesn't mean blind, smug faith and certainty. It means just the opposite: painful, constant struggle. And we, like Jacob, are blessed not for winning the struggle (which is impossible), nor for simply submitting to God's will (which might also be impossible), but for engaging in the struggle itself, for fighting and fighting and refusing to stop. This seems to me to be exactly the same as what might be my favorite idea in Judaism, which I cling to even when I reject the concept of “God.” As you probably know (do they talk about Hebrew etymologies in Christianity? they should, it’s fascinating), the word “Israel” means “one who struggles with God.” This was taught to me to mean that having a relationship with God doesn’t mean blind, smug faith and certainty. It means just the opposite: painful, constant struggle. And we, like Jacob, are blessed not for winning the struggle (which is impossible), nor for simply submitting to God’s will (which might also be impossible), but for engaging in the struggle itself, for fighting and fighting and refusing to stop.

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