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	<title>Comments on: In praise of progressive Republicanism: celebrating the triumph of McCain</title>
	<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ted W.</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-224691</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-224691</guid>
		<description>Being better than Bush on the environment is very different from being "very good on the environment." The League of Conservation Voters, though they endorsed him, gives McCain only a 26% lifetime score. He talks perfectly good talk on prioritizing climate and energy policy, but his proposed solutions are vague (he doesn't explain how he plans to wean America from "foreign oil") and weak (his climate bill called for slower emissions reductions than competing bills -- much too slow to do much good). The environment is more than just something to proclaim support for, and the GOP cannot be said to be "embracing ... Green principles" until it's willing to side with the public's environmental interests instead of corporations' financial interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being better than Bush on the environment is very different from being &#8220;very good on the environment.&#8221; The League of Conservation Voters, though they endorsed him, gives McCain only a 26% lifetime score. He talks perfectly good talk on prioritizing climate and energy policy, but his proposed solutions are vague (he doesn&#8217;t explain how he plans to wean America from &#8220;foreign oil&#8221;) and weak (his climate bill called for slower emissions reductions than competing bills &#8212; much too slow to do much good). The environment is more than just something to proclaim support for, and the GOP cannot be said to be &#8220;embracing &#8230; Green principles&#8221; until it&#8217;s willing to side with the public&#8217;s environmental interests instead of corporations&#8217; financial interests.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223912</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223912</guid>
		<description>sophonisba,

What was the big disaster that set up the winner of the 2000 election to fail?  I'm not a Clinton superfan, but in 2000, we had a budget surplus, were not explicitly involved in any wars, had 2 fewer right-wing supreme court justices, etc.  I understand the idea is out there that "there's no difference between Bush and Gore," but that is not the type of argument I'm making.  

I think there are plenty of differences between Obama/Clinton and McCain.  I'm just saying that the next president is going to be limited to 1 term due to circumstances beyond her/his control.  This will swing the pendulum back, hard, to the losers of the 2008 election. 

I think the Republicans know this, and that's why Frist, Jeb Bush, or any of the Rove-ian crew aren't running.  They're sitting this one out because whoever's next is not going to be there long.  

I'm voting for Obama either way, though.  I'm just going to feel less bad when the Democrats lose this election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sophonisba,</p>
<p>What was the big disaster that set up the winner of the 2000 election to fail?  I&#8217;m not a Clinton superfan, but in 2000, we had a budget surplus, were not explicitly involved in any wars, had 2 fewer right-wing supreme court justices, etc.  I understand the idea is out there that &#8220;there&#8217;s no difference between Bush and Gore,&#8221; but that is not the type of argument I&#8217;m making.  </p>
<p>I think there are plenty of differences between Obama/Clinton and McCain.  I&#8217;m just saying that the next president is going to be limited to 1 term due to circumstances beyond her/his control.  This will swing the pendulum back, hard, to the losers of the 2008 election. </p>
<p>I think the Republicans know this, and that&#8217;s why Frist, Jeb Bush, or any of the Rove-ian crew aren&#8217;t running.  They&#8217;re sitting this one out because whoever&#8217;s next is not going to be there long.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m voting for Obama either way, though.  I&#8217;m just going to feel less bad when the Democrats lose this election.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223667</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223667</guid>
		<description>Richard,

And this would be different from the slaughter of Iraqis that began after we invaded Iraq how? 

Strange, no one wants to talk about what's happened to the Iraqi Christian minority under the American occupation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>And this would be different from the slaughter of Iraqis that began after we invaded Iraq how? </p>
<p>Strange, no one wants to talk about what&#8217;s happened to the Iraqi Christian minority under the American occupation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: angryyoungwoman</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223599</link>
		<dc:creator>angryyoungwoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223599</guid>
		<description>I'm not a republican so I can't really understand the obligation some may feel to vote republican for the good of society, but I know there are SEVERAL reasons I could never get behind McCain.  For one, I'm a feminist and I believe in bodily autonomy.  McCain has made anti-choice statements and has also spoken about putting people in the supreme court who definately would overturn Roe v. Wade.  I think any woman or anyone who claims to care about women should really take that into consideration when they're voting.  Another issue is, of course, Iraq.  I know getting out will probably be difficult and complicated, but at least Clinton and Obama have acknowledged that we need to get out and going in was a mistake.  My last issue (that I'll discuss here, at least) is healthcare.  Since I'm disabled and have a chronic condition, healthcare is a serious concern for me--the democratic party is the only party that has ever even bothered to address the need for serious healthcare reform.  The republicans keep on telling me to pull myself up by my bootstraps (that's hard when you can't afford boots).  Of course, there are other issues like gay rights and workplace discrimination that I think the democrats can better address, but I just don't want to go on and on and on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a republican so I can&#8217;t really understand the obligation some may feel to vote republican for the good of society, but I know there are SEVERAL reasons I could never get behind McCain.  For one, I&#8217;m a feminist and I believe in bodily autonomy.  McCain has made anti-choice statements and has also spoken about putting people in the supreme court who definately would overturn Roe v. Wade.  I think any woman or anyone who claims to care about women should really take that into consideration when they&#8217;re voting.  Another issue is, of course, Iraq.  I know getting out will probably be difficult and complicated, but at least Clinton and Obama have acknowledged that we need to get out and going in was a mistake.  My last issue (that I&#8217;ll discuss here, at least) is healthcare.  Since I&#8217;m disabled and have a chronic condition, healthcare is a serious concern for me&#8211;the democratic party is the only party that has ever even bothered to address the need for serious healthcare reform.  The republicans keep on telling me to pull myself up by my bootstraps (that&#8217;s hard when you can&#8217;t afford boots).  Of course, there are other issues like gay rights and workplace discrimination that I think the democrats can better address, but I just don&#8217;t want to go on and on and on.</p>
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		<title>By: sophonisba</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223452</link>
		<dc:creator>sophonisba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223452</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think that whoever is the next president is going to fail. &lt;/i&gt;

Do you know, that is word for word what I said to myself back when it was Bush vs. Gore? I was right, too. I can't repeat that enough--I was right. I thought to myself, whoever is president is going to be a disaster, and as a Democrat, I don't want a Democrat associated with disaster. It made sense, you know? And I was &lt;i&gt;right.&lt;/i&gt;

And here you are, eight years later, saying this.

This kind of thinking is dangerous, but ultimately just sad and stupid. And I say that as someone who fell victim to it once upon a time eight years ago. It might seem like losing on purpose and pretending to be crafty about it is less humiliating than doing our best to win and still losing, but it's not. It's worse in every way, and it's never ever going to work. People have had your bright idea before, and look at us now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think that whoever is the next president is going to fail. </i></p>
<p>Do you know, that is word for word what I said to myself back when it was Bush vs. Gore? I was right, too. I can&#8217;t repeat that enough&#8211;I was right. I thought to myself, whoever is president is going to be a disaster, and as a Democrat, I don&#8217;t want a Democrat associated with disaster. It made sense, you know? And I was <i>right.</i></p>
<p>And here you are, eight years later, saying this.</p>
<p>This kind of thinking is dangerous, but ultimately just sad and stupid. And I say that as someone who fell victim to it once upon a time eight years ago. It might seem like losing on purpose and pretending to be crafty about it is less humiliating than doing our best to win and still losing, but it&#8217;s not. It&#8217;s worse in every way, and it&#8217;s never ever going to work. People have had your bright idea before, and look at us now.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223417</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223417</guid>
		<description>Mythago,
I think that whoever is the next president is going to fail.  She/he is going to be limited to one disastrous term in which she/he will not be able to accomplish major policy initiatives (healthcare, education reform, etc.) because of Iraq/Iran/the recession/the Bush-Cheney legacy.  If the next president is a Democrat and gets voted out after 1 terrible term, she/he will be followed by several terms of Republican presidents.  If the next president is McCain, Obama or another Democrat will win in 2012 and will be able to better implement a more progressive agenda since McCain will have done unpopular things that probably need to get done, like raise taxes and deal with stabilizing Iraq. 

Here are just 2 examples:
After Koch, a conservative Democrat, left office, he handed David Dinkins a huge mess called New York City.  Dinkins did his best with what he had, but he had to enact some very unpopular measures and was voted out after 1 term.  He was followed by 2 terms of Giuliani, who was followed by 2 terms of Bloomberg.

Similar things happened with the NJ governorship.  Tom Kean handed Jim Florio a mess in 1990.  Florio tried to restructure the tax system for more equitable funding of schools, appointed a state prosecutor for environmental damage, etc., and got kicked out after 1 terms, to be followed by Christine Todd Whitman, who is not *so* terrible, but who testified that post-9/11 air quality posed no threat.

So I'm saying this: The next president will probably only serve 1 term.  The party that loses the presidency in 2008 will win it in 2012 and 2016.  So, while I don't want anyone to get screwed over, getting a little screwed for 4 years (2008-2012) is better than getting *really* screwed for 8 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mythago,<br />
I think that whoever is the next president is going to fail.  She/he is going to be limited to one disastrous term in which she/he will not be able to accomplish major policy initiatives (healthcare, education reform, etc.) because of Iraq/Iran/the recession/the Bush-Cheney legacy.  If the next president is a Democrat and gets voted out after 1 terrible term, she/he will be followed by several terms of Republican presidents.  If the next president is McCain, Obama or another Democrat will win in 2012 and will be able to better implement a more progressive agenda since McCain will have done unpopular things that probably need to get done, like raise taxes and deal with stabilizing Iraq. </p>
<p>Here are just 2 examples:<br />
After Koch, a conservative Democrat, left office, he handed David Dinkins a huge mess called New York City.  Dinkins did his best with what he had, but he had to enact some very unpopular measures and was voted out after 1 term.  He was followed by 2 terms of Giuliani, who was followed by 2 terms of Bloomberg.</p>
<p>Similar things happened with the NJ governorship.  Tom Kean handed Jim Florio a mess in 1990.  Florio tried to restructure the tax system for more equitable funding of schools, appointed a state prosecutor for environmental damage, etc., and got kicked out after 1 terms, to be followed by Christine Todd Whitman, who is not *so* terrible, but who testified that post-9/11 air quality posed no threat.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m saying this: The next president will probably only serve 1 term.  The party that loses the presidency in 2008 will win it in 2012 and 2016.  So, while I don&#8217;t want anyone to get screwed over, getting a little screwed for 4 years (2008-2012) is better than getting *really* screwed for 8 years.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223284</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223284</guid>
		<description>Michelle, I'm truly not getting why that is supposed to be a "progressive" stance. It sounds to me like a supremely privilege stance: hey, I have enough juice that a disastrous Presidency through to 2012 isn't going to affect MY life, so I'm okay with four bad years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle, I&#8217;m truly not getting why that is supposed to be a &#8220;progressive&#8221; stance. It sounds to me like a supremely privilege stance: hey, I have enough juice that a disastrous Presidency through to 2012 isn&#8217;t going to affect MY life, so I&#8217;m okay with four bad years.</p>
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		<title>By: Grupetti</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223269</link>
		<dc:creator>Grupetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223269</guid>
		<description>Welcome back, Hugo (I think.)

I've been a long time reader and infrequent poster, but I've got to say something here.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

McCain v. Clinton is frightening. I wouldn't count on her, even with Mike Ditka as her running mate. The Clinton Smear Machine was never really put on mothballs.

Listen to Mermade. You were a mentor to her, but it's time for the teacher to listen to the pupil.

Mermade, it makes me feel old when you say "nearly half my life," and it sort of freaks me out to have voted for a presidential candidate younger than me, but it's incredibly encouraging to see how many young adults are inspired by Obama, as well as believing they can make a difference. I remember where I was when I heard President Kennedy was shot, so when I heard that Caroline Kennedy (Good Lord..she's all grown up - only a couple years younger than me!) was endorsing Obama, I thought: "Another Torch, Another Generation." I've voted since 1972, and have never been close to shedding tears of joy, relief, and pride as I was this week after voting for Obama.

Hugo, maybe I should realize that you have just one vote, but I hope you'll ask your Millions of Minions who have yet to vote in their primary to vote for Obama. The Future of Humanity and the Destiny of Planet Earth depends on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome back, Hugo (I think.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been a long time reader and infrequent poster, but I&#8217;ve got to say something here.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html</a></p>
<p>McCain v. Clinton is frightening. I wouldn&#8217;t count on her, even with Mike Ditka as her running mate. The Clinton Smear Machine was never really put on mothballs.</p>
<p>Listen to Mermade. You were a mentor to her, but it&#8217;s time for the teacher to listen to the pupil.</p>
<p>Mermade, it makes me feel old when you say &#8220;nearly half my life,&#8221; and it sort of freaks me out to have voted for a presidential candidate younger than me, but it&#8217;s incredibly encouraging to see how many young adults are inspired by Obama, as well as believing they can make a difference. I remember where I was when I heard President Kennedy was shot, so when I heard that Caroline Kennedy (Good Lord..she&#8217;s all grown up - only a couple years younger than me!) was endorsing Obama, I thought: &#8220;Another Torch, Another Generation.&#8221; I&#8217;ve voted since 1972, and have never been close to shedding tears of joy, relief, and pride as I was this week after voting for Obama.</p>
<p>Hugo, maybe I should realize that you have just one vote, but I hope you&#8217;ll ask your Millions of Minions who have yet to vote in their primary to vote for Obama. The Future of Humanity and the Destiny of Planet Earth depends on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223257</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223257</guid>
		<description>I'm a lifelong Republican, and I can say with as near certainty as anything can be said in politics that McCain is being handed a 'poisoned chalice'. He's this year's Bob Dole. He's spent years sticking his thumb in the eyes of his own party on issue after issue. Campaign finance, amnesty, taxes. The best that I've heard any Republican say about him is that we have to "stick with the party" and "you want four years of Hillary?" Under those circumstances, yes. We get the chance every four years to tell them who we want, not to be told who they want. I'll take four years of a Democrat at least to see the Republican party regain its backbone and its principles. I won't vote for him, nor will I send him a nickel, and most Republicans I know feel the same way.

That's why the media and the left have been pushing him so hard. They can treat him decently and as a "man of honor" because they know that he has no chance. (though I'd expect to start hearing noises about the "Keating 5" and about his temper from the NY Times and the other usual suspects right after the convention) Those dems, leftists and "independents" supporting him for the nomination will be pulling the lever for Hillary or Obama come November.

Incidentally, on the environment, he proves his point that he really doesn 't know much about the economy, given that he's prepared to permanently hobble it and cede economic superpower status to Kyoto-free China and India (if you believe that either of those countries will ever accept being classified as "developed nations" under Kyoto, I got a nice bridge you should take a look at).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a lifelong Republican, and I can say with as near certainty as anything can be said in politics that McCain is being handed a &#8216;poisoned chalice&#8217;. He&#8217;s this year&#8217;s Bob Dole. He&#8217;s spent years sticking his thumb in the eyes of his own party on issue after issue. Campaign finance, amnesty, taxes. The best that I&#8217;ve heard any Republican say about him is that we have to &#8220;stick with the party&#8221; and &#8220;you want four years of Hillary?&#8221; Under those circumstances, yes. We get the chance every four years to tell them who we want, not to be told who they want. I&#8217;ll take four years of a Democrat at least to see the Republican party regain its backbone and its principles. I won&#8217;t vote for him, nor will I send him a nickel, and most Republicans I know feel the same way.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why the media and the left have been pushing him so hard. They can treat him decently and as a &#8220;man of honor&#8221; because they know that he has no chance. (though I&#8217;d expect to start hearing noises about the &#8220;Keating 5&#8243; and about his temper from the NY Times and the other usual suspects right after the convention) Those dems, leftists and &#8220;independents&#8221; supporting him for the nomination will be pulling the lever for Hillary or Obama come November.</p>
<p>Incidentally, on the environment, he proves his point that he really doesn &#8216;t know much about the economy, given that he&#8217;s prepared to permanently hobble it and cede economic superpower status to Kyoto-free China and India (if you believe that either of those countries will ever accept being classified as &#8220;developed nations&#8221; under Kyoto, I got a nice bridge you should take a look at).</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223253</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/02/07/in-praise-of-progressive-republicanism-celebrating-the-triumph-of-mccain/#comment-223253</guid>
		<description>As a progressive, here's my best case scenario for the next 2 elections:
In 2008, McCain beats Clinton and has to do his best to clean up this Republican-made mess.  He will fail, as this is an impossible task, and will lose in 2012.  Clinton will be an also-ran at that point (like Kerry's loss in 2004 took him out of the race for 2008), and Obama will sail into office under mildly better conditions.  Hooray!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a progressive, here&#8217;s my best case scenario for the next 2 elections:<br />
In 2008, McCain beats Clinton and has to do his best to clean up this Republican-made mess.  He will fail, as this is an impossible task, and will lose in 2012.  Clinton will be an also-ran at that point (like Kerry&#8217;s loss in 2004 took him out of the race for 2008), and Obama will sail into office under mildly better conditions.  Hooray!</p>
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