Venn diagrams can take various shapes, depending upon what they represent. We math instructors refer to the one you describe as the “Mastercard” Venn diagram because of the two interlocking circles.

…And now, my annual Final Fourcasts…

WOMEN: Rutgers, Tennessee, L.S.U., Maryland
MEN: Memphis, Tennessee, Wisconsin, U.C.L.A.

Boy Genteel

Schlessinger’s point is almost as solid as a law of physics: If the guy could get what he wanted at home, he probably wouldn’t stray.

Here are things he can’t get at home, no matter how willing and devoted his wife: The novelty of a new sex partner. The feeling that he can do whatever the hell he wants to do. The power to ignore his partner’s wants and make it all about him, regardless of what she enjoys. The ability to walk away and not need to care how she will feel about him in the morning.

“If he got what he wanted he wouldn’t stray” is indeed blaming the wife for the husband’s choice to take care of some unmet desire (not “need”–spare me) by having sex with a stranger, for pay, without his wife’s knowledge.

Your comment, “But being a victim is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. She could well have been in deliberate denial,” sounds very much like a judgment, in my opinion.

I would agree the point for her callers is what to do about the situation.

Also, your comment “Schlessinger makes a good point. It’s always useful to ask what the guy is missing that he would go to the trouble elsewhere to get it.”

I would say that it is more useful to ask what is missing in the relationship for both people. It’s good to ask the question about BOTH people, then it sounds less like blame. Was and is he neglectful, so there’s little emotional connection? Is he emotionally abusive? There could be many things that may be missing for both people, they just have different ways of coping or not coping and no one could possibly know. Seeing a marriage counselor is an option, before the situation gets to the critical point.

If you listen to Schlessinger carefully, you will note she differentiates between what WILL happen and what SHOULD happen. Unfortunately, a juvenile way of thinking believes that even pointing out the latter is the equivalent of excusing or supporting it. Not true. But sometimes some things will happen and the question is, now what?
It might be satisfying to rag on an interfering mother-in-law or an alcoholic father, but the point for her callers is what to do about the situation.

My point exactly.

“How does one judge?” In this case, one does not judge.
It’s between the two.

“I have no idea what went on between them, or what Mrs. Spitzer knew. But being a victim is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. She could well have been in deliberate denial.”

The emotional pain etched in her face along with the expression that indicates she’s on auto-pilot, the betrayl, lies and deception and the public humiliation–I just don’t see the get-out-of-jail-free. I think whatever happened between them (and no one knows), or if it’s just him on the perpetual quest of sexual variety and novelty, has created devastating emotional pain. I think it cruel to judge under the circumstances. That of course, doesn’t mean that there are not people who lack empathy towards others…

“Schlessinger makes a good point. It’s always useful to ask what the guy is missing that he would go to the trouble elsewhere to get it.
If the woman has it in her power to provide it, but doesn’t, we have a reason.
If what he wants is vile or destructive or personally repulsive, then he needs to get an attitude adjustment.”

How does one evaluate and set standards of sexual conduct between two people? Is there a measurement? How does one decide what is legitimate? In one of Hugo’s earlier posts he discusses an act called “facials”, which has gained popularity in porn. Does porn set the standard for what is legitimate? And if one doesn’t want to participate in that request is that grounds for cheating?

I still feel empathy towards her. How could anyone look at her and think of her family and not?

Often, that answer is “variety.” Some people aren’t satisfied having sex with just one person for life, regardless.

“To condemn Schlessinger’s point is to insist that the wife can do whatever she likes and nothing untoward will ever happen.”

No, it’s to say that the wife can do whatever she likes and the husband should never cheat (and vice versa - the wife isn’t entitled to cheat on her husband if she feels neglected). There is this thing called divorce, if your husband or wife is really seriously falling short as a spouse.