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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;We love your look, but lose fifteen pounds&#8221;: of modeling contracts, feminist principles, and the elitist politics of personal purity:  UPDATED</title>
	<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Seana</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-378500</link>
		<dc:creator>Seana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 04:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-378500</guid>
		<description>I think it's possible for a feminist to be a model, but I'm not sure being a model is automatically a feminist choice.  Some choices are feminist: choosing to pursue a career in the face of opposition.  Some choices aren't, like choosing to trash other women behind their backs.  And some choices are neutral, like modeling. It's not feminist or "not-feminist", it just is.  I'd have to lose like thirty pounds to model at the weight they want for girls our age anyway, and I'd never do it, but I don't judge those who do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s possible for a feminist to be a model, but I&#8217;m not sure being a model is automatically a feminist choice.  Some choices are feminist: choosing to pursue a career in the face of opposition.  Some choices aren&#8217;t, like choosing to trash other women behind their backs.  And some choices are neutral, like modeling. It&#8217;s not feminist or &#8220;not-feminist&#8221;, it just is.  I&#8217;d have to lose like thirty pounds to model at the weight they want for girls our age anyway, and I&#8217;d never do it, but I don&#8217;t judge those who do.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugo Schwyzer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-377883</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schwyzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-377883</guid>
		<description>Ashley, Carine has decided not to pursue the modeling at this time, and is making decent money waiting tables.  But she's keeping her options open, and is pursuing commercial acting on the side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashley, Carine has decided not to pursue the modeling at this time, and is making decent money waiting tables.  But she&#8217;s keeping her options open, and is pursuing commercial acting on the side.</p>
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		<title>By: ashley</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-377229</link>
		<dc:creator>ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 04:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-377229</guid>
		<description>i understand what everyone is saying ...but we need to be realistic here. just because someone decides to do some modelling to HELP with payments that they were previously struggling to pay does NOT mean she is a feminist. and i dont mean to say that modelling is the right way to go about it... but it is the individuals choice and i think it is great theat carine is taking advantake of her looks and oportunities to eventually make it in her chosen career with the money she is earning esas a model. she is simply speeding up the process of paying for university and other payments. therefore she will not be in debt after she has finished university.

i hope carine has a great future. good luck to her, i hope she makes the best of her modelling career, and hopefully it will be over soon so she can get on with the rest of her life.

thanks for putting this story on your blog, it has influenced my decisions-whether to be in debt for a few years, or strive to be on top of payments as well as have some experiences in other industries i would not usually accept.

it would be great to hear more about her carine in the future!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i understand what everyone is saying &#8230;but we need to be realistic here. just because someone decides to do some modelling to HELP with payments that they were previously struggling to pay does NOT mean she is a feminist. and i dont mean to say that modelling is the right way to go about it&#8230; but it is the individuals choice and i think it is great theat carine is taking advantake of her looks and oportunities to eventually make it in her chosen career with the money she is earning esas a model. she is simply speeding up the process of paying for university and other payments. therefore she will not be in debt after she has finished university.</p>
<p>i hope carine has a great future. good luck to her, i hope she makes the best of her modelling career, and hopefully it will be over soon so she can get on with the rest of her life.</p>
<p>thanks for putting this story on your blog, it has influenced my decisions-whether to be in debt for a few years, or strive to be on top of payments as well as have some experiences in other industries i would not usually accept.</p>
<p>it would be great to hear more about her carine in the future!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Leslee</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-276269</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-276269</guid>
		<description>I did a little bit of modeling when I was in high school, mostly for friends and some "trade-for-print".  I thought about going farther with it, but got the same sort of message Carine has gotten.  I was told that I had to lose two waist sizes and "tighten up my stomach"".  I'm 5'10" and 130 pounds, and I've played sports (basketball, soccer, track) since I was a small child.  I knew that losing that weight would mean I cou;dn't play sports with the same intensity, because I'd have to give up the food to fuel me in order to lose the weight.

I also believe that some of the hostility directed towards Carine is that she is obviously a very pretty girl.  When you are perceived as beautiful, it is as if any suggestion on your part that you are having trouble, or that you are struggling in any way, is immediately going to inspire anger in other women.  They don't believe you have a right to complain when you look like you do.  Whatever --- Carine has a right to pay her bills and pursue that autonomy you always talk about.  And real feminists wouldn't criticize another woman for trying to make it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did a little bit of modeling when I was in high school, mostly for friends and some &#8220;trade-for-print&#8221;.  I thought about going farther with it, but got the same sort of message Carine has gotten.  I was told that I had to lose two waist sizes and &#8220;tighten up my stomach&#8221;".  I&#8217;m 5&#8242;10&#8243; and 130 pounds, and I&#8217;ve played sports (basketball, soccer, track) since I was a small child.  I knew that losing that weight would mean I cou;dn&#8217;t play sports with the same intensity, because I&#8217;d have to give up the food to fuel me in order to lose the weight.</p>
<p>I also believe that some of the hostility directed towards Carine is that she is obviously a very pretty girl.  When you are perceived as beautiful, it is as if any suggestion on your part that you are having trouble, or that you are struggling in any way, is immediately going to inspire anger in other women.  They don&#8217;t believe you have a right to complain when you look like you do.  Whatever &#8212; Carine has a right to pay her bills and pursue that autonomy you always talk about.  And real feminists wouldn&#8217;t criticize another woman for trying to make it.</p>
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		<title>By: John Spragge</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-270619</link>
		<dc:creator>John Spragge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-270619</guid>
		<description>What Emily said.

I would only add this: in some fields (computer engineering, for example) you have to learn specific skills (and learn them and learn them and learn them...), and universities can offer the best way to do that. On the other hand, you can learn a lot about society and social activism by going out and simply working with people. Particularly with the looming economic problems, a person may well learn more from getting out there and doing the work than from staying in school.

I suggest this only as a possibiliy to consider, given your expressed discomfort with your choices. I have no desire, and certainly no right, to judge you, and I don`t know what you want to do. I only mention this to suggest that you have this option; that if you choose to spend some time, say, teaching literacy to women in trouble with the law, many parts of the feminist and left movements will hold your work and experience in high esteem.

Whatever your choice, I wish you well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Emily said.</p>
<p>I would only add this: in some fields (computer engineering, for example) you have to learn specific skills (and learn them and learn them and learn them&#8230;), and universities can offer the best way to do that. On the other hand, you can learn a lot about society and social activism by going out and simply working with people. Particularly with the looming economic problems, a person may well learn more from getting out there and doing the work than from staying in school.</p>
<p>I suggest this only as a possibiliy to consider, given your expressed discomfort with your choices. I have no desire, and certainly no right, to judge you, and I don`t know what you want to do. I only mention this to suggest that you have this option; that if you choose to spend some time, say, teaching literacy to women in trouble with the law, many parts of the feminist and left movements will hold your work and experience in high esteem.</p>
<p>Whatever your choice, I wish you well.</p>
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		<title>By: Values : Elaine Vigneault</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-269734</link>
		<dc:creator>Values : Elaine Vigneault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-269734</guid>
		<description>[...] Hugo wrote about this &#8216;priviledge&#8217; recently: &#8220;[I]t’s easier to be &#8216;pure&#8217; when you’re privileged. We all have choices, of course. But the choices we have are functions of our socio-economic status. I am a vegan by choice, for example; I can choose to eat a plant-based diet. I shop at Whole Foods and gourmet health food stores because I can. The urban poor can’t afford the dietary lifestyle I lead. My veganism may be virtuous, but it is a virtue inextricably linked to prosperity.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Hugo wrote about this &#8216;priviledge&#8217; recently: &#8220;[I]t’s easier to be &#8216;pure&#8217; when you’re privileged. We all have choices, of course. But the choices we have are functions of our socio-economic status. I am a vegan by choice, for example; I can choose to eat a plant-based diet. I shop at Whole Foods and gourmet health food stores because I can. The urban poor can’t afford the dietary lifestyle I lead. My veganism may be virtuous, but it is a virtue inextricably linked to prosperity.&#8221; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-268063</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-268063</guid>
		<description>Feminists face issues of compromise in their personal lives throughout their lives.  Just visit some of the LONG threads on changing ones name upon marriage or staying home with the kiddies.  You will always have choices in which you stand to personally benefit from going along with patriarchal norms/expectations/industries, and you and only you can decide for yourself whether it's "worth it."  But I would caution against "I'll make this compromise now, so that I can do more in the future."  There are some choices you make, having money being among them, that can suck you in and make it hard to do anything differently in "the future."  Again, only you can know whether you will be tempted to put off your ideological dreams indefinitely, or whether it really is a short term compromise.  (Or whether there are ways for you to do the modeling thing in a less compromising way).  But I think you need to be realistic about it being a compromise, and ask if it's a compromise that you feel comfortable with now, without any guarantee of an increased ability to do something else later.

I would also suggest that whether you can meet their standards and look and feel healthy may be the determining factor in this case.  If you can be healthy, then you can "model" that to the world as well.  If it causes you to be unhealthy, or less strong/intellectually capable (due to under-nourishment), then it's a pretty damn big compromise.  Can you be 15 pounds lighter and still the strong, thinking person you are now?  If you wake up one day modeling and you're hungry and can't concentrate on your classes, are you going to be able to quit?

Living in this world, we will all make "unfeminist" accomodations to our culture and society.  Is this one worth it to you is really the only question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feminists face issues of compromise in their personal lives throughout their lives.  Just visit some of the LONG threads on changing ones name upon marriage or staying home with the kiddies.  You will always have choices in which you stand to personally benefit from going along with patriarchal norms/expectations/industries, and you and only you can decide for yourself whether it&#8217;s &#8220;worth it.&#8221;  But I would caution against &#8220;I&#8217;ll make this compromise now, so that I can do more in the future.&#8221;  There are some choices you make, having money being among them, that can suck you in and make it hard to do anything differently in &#8220;the future.&#8221;  Again, only you can know whether you will be tempted to put off your ideological dreams indefinitely, or whether it really is a short term compromise.  (Or whether there are ways for you to do the modeling thing in a less compromising way).  But I think you need to be realistic about it being a compromise, and ask if it&#8217;s a compromise that you feel comfortable with now, without any guarantee of an increased ability to do something else later.</p>
<p>I would also suggest that whether you can meet their standards and look and feel healthy may be the determining factor in this case.  If you can be healthy, then you can &#8220;model&#8221; that to the world as well.  If it causes you to be unhealthy, or less strong/intellectually capable (due to under-nourishment), then it&#8217;s a pretty damn big compromise.  Can you be 15 pounds lighter and still the strong, thinking person you are now?  If you wake up one day modeling and you&#8217;re hungry and can&#8217;t concentrate on your classes, are you going to be able to quit?</p>
<p>Living in this world, we will all make &#8220;unfeminist&#8221; accomodations to our culture and society.  Is this one worth it to you is really the only question.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-266168</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-266168</guid>
		<description>Contingent on money, I meant.  Blargh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contingent on money, I meant.  Blargh.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-266163</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-266163</guid>
		<description>re: the engagement ring stuff

Engagement may not be contingent on marriage, but marriage is.  Without being financially solvent, it's pretty hard to get married.  This is part of why people mostly frown on college students or high schoolers getting married, I'd think.  Engagement rings, blah, I'm uninterested in those personally.

Mermade, I think back to the friends I had when I was in high school.  Missionary Baptists all, who got married so young.  I feel like getting married fast is something they did just to finally have sex.  I feel like premarital sex is the lesser evil between that and getting married to someone you don't know that well when you're young so you can have sex.  Either way, you may not be together in five years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: the engagement ring stuff</p>
<p>Engagement may not be contingent on marriage, but marriage is.  Without being financially solvent, it&#8217;s pretty hard to get married.  This is part of why people mostly frown on college students or high schoolers getting married, I&#8217;d think.  Engagement rings, blah, I&#8217;m uninterested in those personally.</p>
<p>Mermade, I think back to the friends I had when I was in high school.  Missionary Baptists all, who got married so young.  I feel like getting married fast is something they did just to finally have sex.  I feel like premarital sex is the lesser evil between that and getting married to someone you don&#8217;t know that well when you&#8217;re young so you can have sex.  Either way, you may not be together in five years.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine Vigneault</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-265950</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine Vigneault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/13/we-love-your-look-but-lose-fifteen-pounds-of-modeling-contracts-feminist-principles-and-the-elitist-politics-of-personal-purity/#comment-265950</guid>
		<description>" if waitressing and retail isn’t beneath ugly girls, it’s not beneath pretty girls either. Period.

She can do whatever she wants. She can still be a feminist, even if she hurts herself losing the weight and gets spit back out by the industry. But your vicarious horror of normal work, and your insistence that it is just too hard for any principled woman to maintain her principles in the face of it, is ridiculous."

Hear, hear!

She can be a feminist model. I'm not going to take awy her card. She can do any kind of work she wants.

But acting like she doesn't have a real choice is patronizing to her and offensive to the rest of us who aren't beautiful enough to model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; if waitressing and retail isn’t beneath ugly girls, it’s not beneath pretty girls either. Period.</p>
<p>She can do whatever she wants. She can still be a feminist, even if she hurts herself losing the weight and gets spit back out by the industry. But your vicarious horror of normal work, and your insistence that it is just too hard for any principled woman to maintain her principles in the face of it, is ridiculous.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hear, hear!</p>
<p>She can be a feminist model. I&#8217;m not going to take awy her card. She can do any kind of work she wants.</p>
<p>But acting like she doesn&#8217;t have a real choice is patronizing to her and offensive to the rest of us who aren&#8217;t beautiful enough to model.</p>
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