Comments on: Defeatism and global change: on “Women Thrive” and a downcast Elizabeth Wurtzel http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/ Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:53:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Justin http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-280300 Justin Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:00:50 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-280300 One thing movement activists rarely seem to acknowledge is that generational change is the bulk of their success. It's those born in the consciousness raising era that grow up to assume as normal what the activists were fighting to get their contemporaries to acknowledge. The battle isn't won by getting old, sexist men to admit they were wrong; it's when their sons turn to them and say with incredulity "how could you believe something like that?" One thing movement activists rarely seem to acknowledge is that generational change is the bulk of their success. It’s those born in the consciousness raising era that grow up to assume as normal what the activists were fighting to get their contemporaries to acknowledge.

The battle isn’t won by getting old, sexist men to admit they were wrong; it’s when their sons turn to them and say with incredulity “how could you believe something like that?”

]]> By: fern http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-274069 fern Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:16:46 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-274069 It seems to me Wurtzel is right at least I feel this way, I think she just tried to express feelings, of course while being a defeatist is not particularly enhancing it might also give the necessary grits to the "new generation". As you mention the tremendous progress of the movement since its inception 175 years ago, well so much for Darwin as I would not even call it evolution. what irks me is when you mention classes of women's studies being so successful let me tell you when you have a class of ten with eleven idiots you still call it a success? To me the movement to watch is the Gay/Lesbian as they certainly did a lot more in much less than 175 years. Greetings from Belgium. It seems to me Wurtzel is right at least I feel this way, I think she just tried to express feelings, of course while being a defeatist is not particularly enhancing it might also give the necessary grits to the “new generation”.
As you mention the tremendous progress of the movement since its inception 175 years ago, well so much for Darwin as I would not even call it evolution.

what irks me is when you mention classes of women’s studies being so successful let me tell you when you have a class of ten with eleven idiots you still call it a success?

To me the movement to watch is the Gay/Lesbian as they certainly did a lot more in much less than 175 years.
Greetings from Belgium.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-272567 Hugo Schwyzer Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:06:22 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-272567 I liked your message at your place, Elaine, about going on offense. It's hard when you've gotten into the habit of guarding the goal for so long! I liked your message at your place, Elaine, about going on offense. It’s hard when you’ve gotten into the habit of guarding the goal for so long!

]]> By: Be Offensive : Elaine Vigneault http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-272285 Be Offensive : Elaine Vigneault Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:14:29 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-272285 [...] as Hugo says, it’s not Wurtzel’s fault. And it’s not post-modern feminism’s fault [...] […] as Hugo says, it’s not Wurtzel’s fault. And it’s not post-modern feminism’s fault […]

]]> By: Elaine Vigneault http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-272211 Elaine Vigneault Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:35:21 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-272211 "Suggesting that feminism has failed because it hasn’t eradicated misogyny is a bit like lamenting that enduring racism proves that the Civil War was all for naught." Well said. I think if there was anything past feminists got wrong, it was not acknowledging that there is no permanent, fixed power structure. Those in power adapt and use whatever methods they have to in order to keep control. So long as social justice movements continue to play defense instead of offense, we won't make much headway. “Suggesting that feminism has failed because it hasn’t eradicated misogyny is a bit like lamenting that enduring racism proves that the Civil War was all for naught.”

Well said.

I think if there was anything past feminists got wrong, it was not acknowledging that there is no permanent, fixed power structure. Those in power adapt and use whatever methods they have to in order to keep control. So long as social justice movements continue to play defense instead of offense, we won’t make much headway.

]]> By: M. http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-271958 M. Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:57:41 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/03/18/defeatism-and-global-change-on-women-thrive-and-the-defeatism-of-elizabeth-wurtzel/#comment-271958 My friends at YLS say she's set to work in a corporate sweat shop for the foreseeable future. My friends at YLS say she’s set to work in a corporate sweat shop for the foreseeable future.

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