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	<title>Comments on: Love trumps aesthetics: of books, music, desire, and deal-breakers</title>
	<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bmmg39</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-301835</link>
		<dc:creator>bmmg39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-301835</guid>
		<description>Mythago, I think I'm only oversimplifying if, indeed, the ending a relationship over an author really is, as has been suggested here, a facade for a deeper underlying reason, but the woman's statement was -- and I quote -- “Can you believe it! He hadn’t even heard of Pushkin!”

Hadn't even heard of. Well, hell, I hadn't even heard of Pushkin, either, before this thread began. Maybe I'd really like Pushkin's writing; maybe I wouldn't. But it's still a piss-poor reason to get rid of something special. Why not look at it as a chance to introduce her favorite writer to her boyfriend? And how does that woman know that she'll bounce back and find somebody new in a few weeks? Maybe she'll never hit it off with anybody again, and a few decades later she'll be wondering aloud if breaking it off with a guy for not knowing an author from her lit class was really worth it.

See, that's the thing. You brought up the "starving in Africa" rejoinder as a joke, but it applies, in a way. Those who haven't gotten to experience something really don't want to see those who do experience it take it for granted. I remember a comedic film -- it may have been by Mel Brooks -- in which two people are traveling through the desert. One is dying of thirst, and watches intently as the other takes a nice long sip from his canteen, and, once sated, dumps the rest out to clean his hands and his shoes. That's what the Pushkin reader is doing.

I'm not sure that your Karl Marx example fits. One saying that her favorite book is THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO (or even something like MEIN KAMPF) is a bit different from saying she likes a certain fiction writer (or doesn't), or admires a writer you haven't heard of (or doesn't).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mythago, I think I&#8217;m only oversimplifying if, indeed, the ending a relationship over an author really is, as has been suggested here, a facade for a deeper underlying reason, but the woman&#8217;s statement was &#8212; and I quote &#8212; “Can you believe it! He hadn’t even heard of Pushkin!”</p>
<p>Hadn&#8217;t even heard of. Well, hell, I hadn&#8217;t even heard of Pushkin, either, before this thread began. Maybe I&#8217;d really like Pushkin&#8217;s writing; maybe I wouldn&#8217;t. But it&#8217;s still a piss-poor reason to get rid of something special. Why not look at it as a chance to introduce her favorite writer to her boyfriend? And how does that woman know that she&#8217;ll bounce back and find somebody new in a few weeks? Maybe she&#8217;ll never hit it off with anybody again, and a few decades later she&#8217;ll be wondering aloud if breaking it off with a guy for not knowing an author from her lit class was really worth it.</p>
<p>See, that&#8217;s the thing. You brought up the &#8220;starving in Africa&#8221; rejoinder as a joke, but it applies, in a way. Those who haven&#8217;t gotten to experience something really don&#8217;t want to see those who do experience it take it for granted. I remember a comedic film &#8212; it may have been by Mel Brooks &#8212; in which two people are traveling through the desert. One is dying of thirst, and watches intently as the other takes a nice long sip from his canteen, and, once sated, dumps the rest out to clean his hands and his shoes. That&#8217;s what the Pushkin reader is doing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that your Karl Marx example fits. One saying that her favorite book is THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO (or even something like MEIN KAMPF) is a bit different from saying she likes a certain fiction writer (or doesn&#8217;t), or admires a writer you haven&#8217;t heard of (or doesn&#8217;t).</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-296076</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 13:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-296076</guid>
		<description>I have an acquaintance whose politics are absurd. She does not use logic, she knows nothing except for what ain't so, is impermeable to facts.  She operates on feelings.  Her leaps in discussion are so irrational that even following her is nearly impossible.
The problem, were one to be in a relationship with her, would not be the politics, but the way of thinking.  How competent would she be in the rest of the world?  That could be a red flag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an acquaintance whose politics are absurd. She does not use logic, she knows nothing except for what ain&#8217;t so, is impermeable to facts.  She operates on feelings.  Her leaps in discussion are so irrational that even following her is nearly impossible.<br />
The problem, were one to be in a relationship with her, would not be the politics, but the way of thinking.  How competent would she be in the rest of the world?  That could be a red flag.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-295569</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-295569</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There are boatloads of people out there who’ve never found romantic love even once, aching to experience what others are willing to throw away because they can’t believe their partners don’t listen to INXS.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Shame on you for breaking up with that nice person! Why, there are romantically-deprived people in Africa starving for relationships, and they'd be GLAD to date somebody who forgets their birthday and expects them to do all the driving!

Kidding, but I think you're oversimplifying. The article is muddled, but "books" here being a proxy for values and ideals, and what people like or don't like can tell you something about them. Of course it's a little shallow to dump somebody just because they don't share your appreciation for John Grisham. But should we pretend that what people do or don't choose to read (or watch, or play) is meaningless? If you turn away a potential date because she thinks Karl Marx is the most profound writer in history, are you really dumping her "just because of a book"? Don't think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There are boatloads of people out there who’ve never found romantic love even once, aching to experience what others are willing to throw away because they can’t believe their partners don’t listen to INXS.</p></blockquote>
<p>Shame on you for breaking up with that nice person! Why, there are romantically-deprived people in Africa starving for relationships, and they&#8217;d be GLAD to date somebody who forgets their birthday and expects them to do all the driving!</p>
<p>Kidding, but I think you&#8217;re oversimplifying. The article is muddled, but &#8220;books&#8221; here being a proxy for values and ideals, and what people like or don&#8217;t like can tell you something about them. Of course it&#8217;s a little shallow to dump somebody just because they don&#8217;t share your appreciation for John Grisham. But should we pretend that what people do or don&#8217;t choose to read (or watch, or play) is meaningless? If you turn away a potential date because she thinks Karl Marx is the most profound writer in history, are you really dumping her &#8220;just because of a book&#8221;? Don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: Indecisive</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-295474</link>
		<dc:creator>Indecisive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-295474</guid>
		<description>You find Calvino unreadable?  I'm going to stop reading this blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You find Calvino unreadable?  I&#8217;m going to stop reading this blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Hugo Schwyzer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-295028</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schwyzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-295028</guid>
		<description>Tom, those are hardly mutually exclusive ideals.  We are called to righteous anger as well as humulity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, those are hardly mutually exclusive ideals.  We are called to righteous anger as well as humulity.</p>
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		<title>By: Married Tom</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-294914</link>
		<dc:creator>Married Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-294914</guid>
		<description>Hugo,

Are you looking for someone who will submit to His will, pray for guidance and direction, and lot God enable her to change the world with you?  Or are you looking for ambition coupled wih righteous indignation as a motivator, with the target of indignation mutually shared?

I would suggest that the former is more likely to be effective and will also lead to a more fulfilling marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugo,</p>
<p>Are you looking for someone who will submit to His will, pray for guidance and direction, and lot God enable her to change the world with you?  Or are you looking for ambition coupled wih righteous indignation as a motivator, with the target of indignation mutually shared?</p>
<p>I would suggest that the former is more likely to be effective and will also lead to a more fulfilling marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugo Schwyzer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-293961</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schwyzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-293961</guid>
		<description>Actually, the older I get, the less I regard electoral politics as an effective way to promote enduring change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the older I get, the less I regard electoral politics as an effective way to promote enduring change.</p>
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		<title>By: Funt Of A Thousand Faces</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-293810</link>
		<dc:creator>Funt Of A Thousand Faces</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-293810</guid>
		<description>Well the reason it surprised me in your case is that you ARE a very political person and politics are important to you. 

Also, I thought the point of the post was also that as we grow older that shared values should matter more than aesthetic tastes. I'd put politics more in the former category and that's why I was surprised that was the case with you(although I know your politics are ever changing).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the reason it surprised me in your case is that you ARE a very political person and politics are important to you. </p>
<p>Also, I thought the point of the post was also that as we grow older that shared values should matter more than aesthetic tastes. I&#8217;d put politics more in the former category and that&#8217;s why I was surprised that was the case with you(although I know your politics are ever changing).</p>
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		<title>By: Hugo Schwyzer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-293704</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schwyzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-293704</guid>
		<description>You answer your own question, Bill: "politics, to some"... we all draw the line in different places, frequently arbitrarily, which was the point of the post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You answer your own question, Bill: &#8220;politics, to some&#8221;&#8230; we all draw the line in different places, frequently arbitrarily, which was the point of the post!</p>
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		<title>By: Funt Of A Thousand Faces</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-293388</link>
		<dc:creator>Funt Of A Thousand Faces</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/03/love-trumps-aesthetics-of-books-music-desire-and-deal-breakers/#comment-293388</guid>
		<description>I believe I know what you mean here although I dare say that you might have phrased parts of this better. It seems that you're basically saying that you want to be with (and thankfully are with) someone who shares your values, one of which is a desire to be challenged and also tikkun olam (repairing the world). Of course the phrase 'change the world' might be misleading as it implies something on a grand scale and I'm sure you'll agree that there are large and small ways to 'change the world'. 

My question is this, it's important to you that someone share your values and beliefs about feminism, animals and spirituality. Well politics, to some, is a pretty important manifestation of their values and beliefs. So why is that one not such a priority? 

(Here I am, rocks you like a hurricane!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe I know what you mean here although I dare say that you might have phrased parts of this better. It seems that you&#8217;re basically saying that you want to be with (and thankfully are with) someone who shares your values, one of which is a desire to be challenged and also tikkun olam (repairing the world). Of course the phrase &#8216;change the world&#8217; might be misleading as it implies something on a grand scale and I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll agree that there are large and small ways to &#8216;change the world&#8217;. </p>
<p>My question is this, it&#8217;s important to you that someone share your values and beliefs about feminism, animals and spirituality. Well politics, to some, is a pretty important manifestation of their values and beliefs. So why is that one not such a priority? </p>
<p>(Here I am, rocks you like a hurricane!)</p>
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