Comments on: “I have so much love to give”: young women and self-flattery http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/ Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:39:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: mythago http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-302478 mythago Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:32:47 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-302478 Awesome! Because, you know, my CAT will always love me. Awesome! Because, you know, my CAT will always love me.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-302343 Hugo Schwyzer Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:09:47 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-302343 You did, Mythago. I'm sending the free box of Meow Mix now. You did, Mythago. I’m sending the free box of Meow Mix now.

]]> By: mythago http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-302341 mythago Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:08:08 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-302341 Darn. Who had 2:05 p.m. on the "you feminists will all end up as lonely old crazy cat ladies" comment pool? Darn. Who had 2:05 p.m. on the “you feminists will all end up as lonely old crazy cat ladies” comment pool?

]]> By: Mary Tracy9 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-302136 Mary Tracy9 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:05:11 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-302136 <blockquote>"you “don’t need a man to be happy.” "</blockquote> That is true, but YOU DO NEED LOVE TO BE HAPPY. I think many feminists would do well in remembering that.

“you “don’t need a man to be happy.” “

That is true, but YOU DO NEED LOVE TO BE HAPPY. I think many feminists would do well in remembering that.

]]> By: Martin http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300601 Martin Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:56:31 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300601 This was quite a good post, Hugo (in contrast with some of your posts on other topics where I vehemently disagree with one idea or another). Still, I think the whole "so much love to give" phenomenon is prevalent in young boys, too. It's simple immaturity, nothing more. When I was in high school, and emphatically <i>not</i> part of the popular clique, I would bewail my lack of a girlfriend with exactly this self-pitying whine. If only the girls would "give me a chance" and recognize all of the fine qualities <i>I</i> possessed, not the least of which was some boundless capacity for unconditional love, they'd flock to me. As always, this kind of self-pity party is just an extension of self-absorption, rooted in basic immaturity. It just takes growing up to realize a) romantic love isn't the panacea you think it is and b) no other person can possibly be the primary source of your happiness. This was quite a good post, Hugo (in contrast with some of your posts on other topics where I vehemently disagree with one idea or another). Still, I think the whole “so much love to give” phenomenon is prevalent in young boys, too. It’s simple immaturity, nothing more. When I was in high school, and emphatically not part of the popular clique, I would bewail my lack of a girlfriend with exactly this self-pitying whine. If only the girls would “give me a chance” and recognize all of the fine qualities I possessed, not the least of which was some boundless capacity for unconditional love, they’d flock to me. As always, this kind of self-pity party is just an extension of self-absorption, rooted in basic immaturity. It just takes growing up to realize a) romantic love isn’t the panacea you think it is and b) no other person can possibly be the primary source of your happiness.

]]> By: Karen http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300448 Karen Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:24:59 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300448 I believe there is a strong basic desire for human connection (emotional/romantic love) and some people only know destructive self-love. I don’t believe love changes anyone and you are so right about what love can, and cannot do. Hell trying to reason with someone who is demonstrating irrational behavior can’t and won’t change them. I could hardly fault anyone (girls/women) for strong socially approved conditioning. Love conquers all, love will change him/them/her, etc., and all the endless variations of this message, even the oft quoted, “It is better to give than to receive,” (NO, NO, NO…it is better/healthier to strike a balance between giving and receiving)….All these messages are variations of the same and what needs to change is the message. Your post resonates with me too… “Long-term relationships have many benefits. One of the best of those benefits is that they tend to destroy any illusion one has about one’s own unique power to heal or change another person.” Anyone who has weathered a long-term relationship with a partner who suffers an addiction or terrible past or just difficult issues could attest to that. “The greatest attribute that we have may well be our capacity to love, but that love, as powerful as it may seem to us, has its limits.” So true, yet I also believe that different people have a different capacity for love and some people give far more of themselves than others. I believe love is an action and a choice. It’s easy to be in love and a lot harder to act in a loving way. Great post, Hugo. I believe there is a strong basic desire for human connection (emotional/romantic love) and some people only know destructive self-love. I don’t believe love changes anyone and you are so right about what love can, and cannot do. Hell trying to reason with someone who is demonstrating irrational behavior can’t and won’t change them. I could hardly fault anyone (girls/women) for strong socially approved conditioning. Love conquers all, love will change him/them/her, etc., and all the endless variations of this message, even the oft quoted, “It is better to give than to receive,” (NO, NO, NO…it is better/healthier to strike a balance between giving and receiving)….All these messages are variations of the same and what needs to change is the message.

Your post resonates with me too… “Long-term relationships have many benefits. One of the best of those benefits is that they tend to destroy any illusion one has about one’s own unique power to heal or change another person.” Anyone who has weathered a long-term relationship with a partner who suffers an addiction or terrible past or just difficult issues could attest to that.

“The greatest attribute that we have may well be our capacity to love, but that love, as powerful as it may seem to us, has its limits.” So true, yet I also believe that different people have a different capacity for love and some people give far more of themselves than others. I believe love is an action and a choice. It’s easy to be in love and a lot harder to act in a loving way. Great post, Hugo.

]]> By: Richard Aubrey http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300446 Richard Aubrey Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:23:22 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300446 Other than body image, who is teaching young women to loathe themselves? Is it possible that, for once, some nastiness isn't being imposed on the innocent by a vicious and uncaring Other? And, as regards body image, has any woman said she has a size 2 to give, as opposed to having love to give? Other than body image, who is teaching young women to loathe themselves?
Is it possible that, for once, some nastiness isn’t being imposed on the innocent by a vicious and uncaring Other?

And, as regards body image, has any woman said she has a size 2 to give, as opposed to having love to give?

]]> By: Victoria http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300354 Victoria Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:38:37 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300354 This is a fantastic post. I think this is a very real phenomena, however I think there are several different issues mention in your post which are hard to separate out. People do have a strong driving desire to be 'special' and <i> feel </i> that they are special. The I have so much love to give belief is, as you've said, something girls whose all other potential accomplishments or skills are suppressed, can indulge in believing in a socially approved way. There is also the belief that a certain amount of love or support can change another person. Which you've addressed in a great way. However, the I have so much love to give, idea is also often indulged in by people who believe that they have so much love to give to perfect person X if only they could find perfect person X. This is much indulged in by Nice Guys I think, they believe they could be the perfect boyfriend if only the perfect woman would behave the way she should and be theirs. Both women and men I think want to believe they can love deeply and strongly, and I think it is a human trait to have a lot of emotion inside and if you don't have a really intimate relationship with family or <i> someone </i> and lots of people don't you can feel like you just have all this emotional potential you haven't shared yet. Personally I think the best way to judge how deeply you can love is by seeing how deeply you love the people you already love or have loved. Looking at reality instead of your imagination is usually a good move. At the same time, I do believe that different people have a different capacity for love. Partly innate and partly formed by their live experiences I think it's undeniable that some people give more of themselves to others then other people. This is a fantastic post. I think this is a very real phenomena, however I think there are several different issues mention in your post which are hard to separate out.

People do have a strong driving desire to be ’special’ and feel that they are special. The I have so much love to give belief is, as you’ve said, something girls whose all other potential accomplishments or skills are suppressed, can indulge in believing in a socially approved way.

There is also the belief that a certain amount of love or support can change another person. Which you’ve addressed in a great way.

However, the I have so much love to give, idea is also often indulged in by people who believe that they have so much love to give to perfect person X if only they could find perfect person X. This is much indulged in by Nice Guys I think, they believe they could be the perfect boyfriend if only the perfect woman would behave the way she should and be theirs. Both women and men I think want to believe they can love deeply and strongly, and I think it is a human trait to have a lot of emotion inside and if you don’t have a really intimate relationship with family or someone and lots of people don’t you can feel like you just have all this emotional potential you haven’t shared yet. Personally I think the best way to judge how deeply you can love is by seeing how deeply you love the people you already love or have loved. Looking at reality instead of your imagination is usually a good move.

At the same time, I do believe that different people have a different capacity for love. Partly innate and partly formed by their live experiences I think it’s undeniable that some people give more of themselves to others then other people.

]]> By: Mark http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300223 Mark Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:36:15 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-300223 When a person says, “I have so much love to give”, does it mean overall love of all types, or just romantic love? I think the majority of humans have a need to love others in some way, or a natural instinct to love others, especially children. So the feeling of “having to give love” to someone, or even something, like a pet in many cases, is more common than not. I never felt like I had “so much love to give”, although I’ve felt love many times, and in many ways and have craved “romantic” love from females many times (not just sex). There are very few people who don’t want to love something or be loved. The drive to help others in perceived need is very strong, and this is part of feeling love for others. I have been in many discussions with other males about changing ourselves to be more “bad and needy” instead of “needed and nice”, to attract more females! Early on in our lives we realized that most of the “hot” chicks were going for the “bad boys in need of calming down”. We never did figure out what the attraction to this type of guy was, given that it was more logical to want a more stable and nice guy. It was uncertain to us if entertainment media was distorting romantic love, parenting was, or if it was just natural instinct? I am older now, so wiser, and don’t get angry about it anymore. New examples may have to be taught to the young. Although we fight the entertainment industry on this, as it increasingly invades every part of life. It would be better to teach more often that it is good to want to give love, and it should be given, but “romantic” type love is not an end to happiness, only a very small part of it, and usually temporary. I think every person I have ever met has found this out eventually. When a person says, “I have so much love to give”, does it mean overall love of all types, or just romantic love? I think the majority of humans have a need to love others in some way, or a natural instinct to love others, especially children. So the feeling of “having to give love” to someone, or even something, like a pet in many cases, is more common than not.

I never felt like I had “so much love to give”, although I’ve felt love many times, and in many ways and have craved “romantic” love from females many times (not just sex). There are very few people who don’t want to love something or be loved. The drive to help others in perceived need is very strong, and this is part of feeling love for others.

I have been in many discussions with other males about changing ourselves to be more “bad and needy” instead of “needed and nice”, to attract more females! Early on in our lives we realized that most of the “hot” chicks were going for the “bad boys in need of calming down”. We never did figure out what the attraction to this type of guy was, given that it was more logical to want a more stable and nice guy. It was uncertain to us if entertainment media was distorting romantic love, parenting was, or if it was just natural instinct? I am older now, so wiser, and don’t get angry about it anymore.

New examples may have to be taught to the young. Although we fight the entertainment industry on this, as it increasingly invades every part of life. It would be better to teach more often that it is good to want to give love, and it should be given, but “romantic” type love is not an end to happiness, only a very small part of it, and usually temporary. I think every person I have ever met has found this out eventually.

]]> By: theverycold http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-299946 theverycold Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:55:59 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/i-have-so-much-love-to-give-young-women-and-self-flattery/#comment-299946 it's true. i did feel that way when i was much younger, and sometimes i feel that way nowadays. it really strikes me when i see gfs of mine link success with boyfriend despite the fact that these girls are academically and socially already successful. whenever i tend to get overly lonely, and start thinking about "loving some dude" i look at angelina jolie. it's odd, but a successful, independent, strong woman like that inspires me to love myself and not worry so much about the future. it’s true. i did feel that way when i was much younger, and sometimes i feel that way nowadays. it really strikes me when i see gfs of mine link success with boyfriend despite the fact that these girls are academically and socially already successful. whenever i tend to get overly lonely, and start thinking about “loving some dude” i look at angelina jolie. it’s odd, but a successful, independent, strong woman like that inspires me to love myself and not worry so much about the future.

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