Comments on: Where to give the “stimulus” check? http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/ Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:14:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Jeana http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-340518 Jeana Mon, 12 May 2008 14:24:06 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-340518 When we first heard that these stimulus checks were coming out, my husband suggested sending it back. I thought it was a ridiculous idea-what good would that do?! He then began to explain to me that the money would be borrowed from China-money we as a country could ill afford to borrow as we are already in deficit. Money that would have to be paid back-not by us, but by our children and grandchildren. We would in effect be raiding their piggy banks. Then I began to see the quahdary with accepting it-add to that the fact that the gov't was touting this as an economic stimulus plan-and was encouraging everyone to not pay down their debts or use it for necessity but to go out and spend it on more stuff we don't need-this money took on a sinister light. How irresponsible can people be? When you owe money you do not borrow more until it is paid down. You do not go buying unneccessary items when things get tight. You do not steal money from your children to go blow it frivilously. It is poor stewardship and our gov't is encouraging it. We made up our minds not to accept the money. One month ago we signed papers on a very modestly priced house. We were making good money for us(a smidge over $20,000 a year) and our five boys were in sore need of more room than what our current 2-3 bdrm home afforded. Upon arriving home that day we learned there had been an unexpected layoff and we no longer had a future income. The stimulus check tempted us to disregard our convictions-but the only thing that had changed was our finances-not the facts of the matter. Upon learning that we had recieved our check May 9, we wrote out a $2100 check to the gov't and put it in the mail to Glenn Beck of CNN Headline News with a letter stating our reasons for returning it and requesting that he send it along to our broken gov't for us-we want to send a message-we are poor-not homeless or starving poor but we can't afford to shop at malls or buy new cars or buy name brand products-but I am not sure we would if we could-we have no credit cards what-so-ever-NONE. Checkbook and debit card. The only thing we owe on is less than $20,000 on two homes with 5-10 year notes thru our local bank. We own 3 vehicles and 9 lots free and clear.We spend smartly and make our dollar stretch. We do not get foodstamps or welfare checks-and we do not feel right about accepting money from the gov't when they are at such odds with our morals and convictions. We can't afford to be as irresponsible as our gov't is and would like for us to be. Even though we could surely use it now-to get us thru this rough spot we're in-we have faith that we can make it thru without compromising our convictions. We are tightening the belt and our country would do well to follow suit. When we first heard that these stimulus checks were coming out, my husband suggested sending it back. I thought it was a ridiculous idea-what good would that do?! He then began to explain to me that the money would be borrowed from China-money we as a country could ill afford to borrow as we are already in deficit. Money that would have to be paid back-not by us, but by our children and grandchildren. We would in effect be raiding their piggy banks. Then I began to see the quahdary with accepting it-add to that the fact that the gov’t was touting this as an economic stimulus plan-and was encouraging everyone to not pay down their debts or use it for necessity but to go out and spend it on more stuff we don’t need-this money took on a sinister light. How irresponsible can people be? When you owe money you do not borrow more until it is paid down. You do not go buying unneccessary items when things get tight. You do not steal money from your children to go blow it frivilously. It is poor stewardship and our gov’t is encouraging it. We made up our minds not to accept the money. One month ago we signed papers on a very modestly priced house. We were making good money for us(a smidge over $20,000 a year) and our five boys were in sore need of more room than what our current 2-3 bdrm home afforded. Upon arriving home that day we learned there had been an unexpected layoff and we no longer had a future income. The stimulus check tempted us to disregard our convictions-but the only thing that had changed was our finances-not the facts of the matter. Upon learning that we had recieved our check May 9, we wrote out a $2100 check to the gov’t and put it in the mail to Glenn Beck of CNN Headline News with a letter stating our reasons for returning it and requesting that he send it along to our broken gov’t for us-we want to send a message-we are poor-not homeless or starving poor but we can’t afford to shop at malls or buy new cars or buy name brand products-but I am not sure we would if we could-we have no credit cards what-so-ever-NONE. Checkbook and debit card. The only thing we owe on is less than $20,000 on two homes with 5-10 year notes thru our local bank. We own 3 vehicles and 9 lots free and clear.We spend smartly and make our dollar stretch. We do not get foodstamps or welfare checks-and we do not feel right about accepting money from the gov’t when they are at such odds with our morals and convictions. We can’t afford to be as irresponsible as our gov’t is and would like for us to be. Even though we could surely use it now-to get us thru this rough spot we’re in-we have faith that we can make it thru without compromising our convictions. We are tightening the belt and our country would do well to follow suit.

]]> By: Priviledged Male http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-324838 Priviledged Male Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:12:59 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-324838 Hey Chief! Thanks for the link. One of the ideas they talked about seemed pretty good to me, and a win for all. Treasury Bonds. Give Uncle Sam a low interest loan. Actually, I'll probably end up giving most of my check (like I do most every month) to the fine folks at Exxon and Shell. Some of it will go to more hard working executives at my Electric Utility. Some will go to the fine folks at State Farm. The list goes on.. Hey Chief!

Thanks for the link. One of the ideas they talked about seemed pretty good to me, and a win for all. Treasury Bonds. Give Uncle Sam a low interest loan.

Actually, I’ll probably end up giving most of my check (like I do most every month) to the fine folks at Exxon and Shell. Some of it will go to more hard working executives at my Electric Utility. Some will go to the fine folks at State Farm. The list goes on..

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320537 Hugo Schwyzer Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:35:04 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320537 Jessica, I will vote for candidates who are most likely to propose progressive taxation. I will give money to candidates most likely to do so. And I will give to charity. Hey, I tithe on the gross. I think my money-giving cred is pretty strong. Jessica, I will vote for candidates who are most likely to propose progressive taxation. I will give money to candidates most likely to do so. And I will give to charity.

Hey, I tithe on the gross. I think my money-giving cred is pretty strong.

]]> By: Noumena http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320523 Noumena Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:50:47 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320523 I think it's important to point out that corruption and inefficiency are not necessary qualities of government bureaucracies. Roosevelt's New Deal bureaucracies were intensely scrutinised by laissez-faire opponents, and almost no cases of corruption and inefficiency (of the DMV kind) were found. This was largely thanks to a culture of service and pride in one's career as a public servant that, for reasons I won't speculate on, seems to have mostly vanished from today's civil service. I think it’s important to point out that corruption and inefficiency are not necessary qualities of government bureaucracies. Roosevelt’s New Deal bureaucracies were intensely scrutinised by laissez-faire opponents, and almost no cases of corruption and inefficiency (of the DMV kind) were found. This was largely thanks to a culture of service and pride in one’s career as a public servant that, for reasons I won’t speculate on, seems to have mostly vanished from today’s civil service.

]]> By: Jessica http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320515 Jessica Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:21:14 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320515 Wait, you're telling me you'd rather choose how to spend your money than have the government choose for you? Odd. I don't quite buy that your "measly" $600 doesn't matter -- wont' that $600 go towards all of the good things you enumerated above? Sure it's not as much as you'd like to be taken out of people's wallets, but it's something! Maybe you could start a movement to have everyone who believes in the benficence of government give their check back .... then you could start hitting the numbers you think would matter. People who think their money could be better used at their own direction (cretans) could keep it. Wait, you’re telling me you’d rather choose how to spend your money than have the government choose for you? Odd. I don’t quite buy that your “measly” $600 doesn’t matter — wont’ that $600 go towards all of the good things you enumerated above? Sure it’s not as much as you’d like to be taken out of people’s wallets, but it’s something! Maybe you could start a movement to have everyone who believes in the benficence of government give their check back …. then you could start hitting the numbers you think would matter. People who think their money could be better used at their own direction (cretans) could keep it.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320512 Hugo Schwyzer Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:10:39 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320512 Jessica, IF I get a stimulus check (as I said, we probably won't qualify), I expect we will give 100% to 501(c)3 charities. Because whatever the amount is, the real good of higher taxes is contingent on everyone's participation -- my $600, by itself, means more to a charity than it does to a government. The extra $600 of 50 million Americans, on the other hand, would best be spent by the federal government. It's an economy of scale. Jessica, IF I get a stimulus check (as I said, we probably won’t qualify), I expect we will give 100% to 501(c)3 charities. Because whatever the amount is, the real good of higher taxes is contingent on everyone’s participation — my $600, by itself, means more to a charity than it does to a government. The extra $600 of 50 million Americans, on the other hand, would best be spent by the federal government. It’s an economy of scale.

]]> By: Jessica http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320497 Jessica Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:31:14 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320497 I worked for one of the better-run parts of the federal government and I have to say, it made me more of a small-government person. There are very few incentives to perform, very few accountability-checks. The people who work in government are often people who couldn't get jobs in the higher-paying private sector, and the consequent problems with productivity are easy to see. Sure, there are things only the government can do. And we need some taxes so that government can do those things. But there are so many areas where government simply gums up the works. And you didn't tell us whether you'll be giving your stimulus check back, Hugo! Are you going to put your money where your mouth is? I worked for one of the better-run parts of the federal government and I have to say, it made me more of a small-government person. There are very few incentives to perform, very few accountability-checks. The people who work in government are often people who couldn’t get jobs in the higher-paying private sector, and the consequent problems with productivity are easy to see.
Sure, there are things only the government can do. And we need some taxes so that government can do those things. But there are so many areas where government simply gums up the works.
And you didn’t tell us whether you’ll be giving your stimulus check back, Hugo! Are you going to put your money where your mouth is?

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320058 Hugo Schwyzer Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:49:08 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320058 Sarah, what do you propose to do with the poor who can't afford health care? Blue Cross of California isn't run well (trust me on this), and they're private. Anecdotes about lazy individuals abound everywhere (they're legendary in the Army, and no one outside of the Amish suggests disbanding the military because of work-shirkers in the ranks). Remember I'm a government employee. Would a private institution offer you classes at $20 a unit? And yes, we do get federal as well as state money... Sarah, what do you propose to do with the poor who can’t afford health care? Blue Cross of California isn’t run well (trust me on this), and they’re private. Anecdotes about lazy individuals abound everywhere (they’re legendary in the Army, and no one outside of the Amish suggests disbanding the military because of work-shirkers in the ranks).

Remember I’m a government employee. Would a private institution offer you classes at $20 a unit? And yes, we do get federal as well as state money…

]]> By: Mermade http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320052 Mermade Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:39:54 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-320052 I understand, but tell that to the guy who "runs" Medi-Cal. My uncle knows him personally, and all he does is sit on his ass and plays solitaire most of the day. I am cynical because the government doesn't really care about our well-being. I am fine with the goverment building the freeways and improving public education, but I am skeptic of welfare programs as well as Medi-Cal because they are not run very well. Our money could go to better causes. I understand, but tell that to the guy who “runs” Medi-Cal. My uncle knows him personally, and all he does is sit on his ass and plays solitaire most of the day. I am cynical because the government doesn’t really care about our well-being. I am fine with the goverment building the freeways and improving public education, but I am skeptic of welfare programs as well as Medi-Cal because they are not run very well. Our money could go to better causes.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-319567 Hugo Schwyzer Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:34:49 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/22/where-to-give-the-stimulus-check/#comment-319567 Mermade, who will build the freeways? Who will fight the wars? Who will develop the space program? And you gotta love corporate efficiency. Enron, Bear Stearns, Chrysler... running to the government to bail them out from their own stupidity. One of the enduring myths of the right is that the private sector knows what it is doing much better than the government does. And the whole accounting scandal of a few years back made a lie of the hoary old notion that "there's stricter accountability in the private sector" than in the public. Mermade, who will build the freeways? Who will fight the wars? Who will develop the space program?

And you gotta love corporate efficiency. Enron, Bear Stearns, Chrysler… running to the government to bail them out from their own stupidity. One of the enduring myths of the right is that the private sector knows what it is doing much better than the government does. And the whole accounting scandal of a few years back made a lie of the hoary old notion that “there’s stricter accountability in the private sector” than in the public.

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