[W]hile I don’t doubt for a second that there are plenty of women in their thirties or forties who find a nicely muscled adolescent male to be visually appealing, I think there’s a substantial (and in this case, welcome) social pressure against an older woman making advances on a younger man.

I am a woman in her thirties who can most definitely appreciate the looks and charms of young men in their late teens and early twenties; but that appreciation is a million miles from wanting to date or have sex with them. It is not social pressure that holds me back. I don’t want a sexual relationship based on superficialities such as young skin, good muscle tone or youthful enthusiasm. I want an equal, someone I can talk to and explore life with, someone who is on the same track as me, whatever the length of the relationship. And I don’t consider ten years or less a dramatic age gap for men or women, I notice some people are counting an 8 year gap as significant. Would they feel that way if the man were older than the woman?

Oh and Hugo, that part about adolescent boys - I don’t know any women who find adolescent boys appealing, young men yes, but most definitely not adolescents, that would be a whole other arena.

I can only speak for myself and not other women, so you are right that it can mean different things to different women. An example I can provide is that children are very self-focused–how does the world affect me, not how do I affect the world. When one mother’s a child they expect developmental stages. Adult children do not make the usual transition from the childish how the world affects me to how I affect the world, which usually happens in adolescence and remain locked in childish view (narcissism). They go though life expecting others to take care of their needs (emotional and otherwise) and do not think about how they impact other people, if their demands are unreasonable, selfish, childish. It is all about them and their needs. When it comes to their needs they want me to listen, to console, to mother, to nurture, but they do not think about my needs because it is all about them. Women can behave like this as well. I hope this helps…

What type of behavior exactly are we describing here? I don’t mean to be deliberately dense, but the meaning to me, from these posts, sounds somewhat ambiguous, at least from my (a male) perspective.

One couple is American, very egalitarian and I believe just happened to fall in love with each other and both be ready for the relationship at that time of their lives.

The other two couples are Mexican (I live in Mexico). The female/male couple is very much a relationship of mothering/teaching/etc. The male/male couple is of the younger man taking care of the older man physically and emotionally and the older man taking care of the younger man financially. However, they have been together for 15 years and I just met them a year ago. Hence, I don’t know what the relationship was like at the beginning.

I mention that they are Mexican because “mothering” is a woman’s role regardless. I dated a man younger than me who expected to be “mothered,” although not necessarily taught, and I am dating a man, right now, who is older than me and wants to be “mothered.”

I absolutely do not want to “mother” a lover. If/when I want children I will have them. However, I do agree that “teaching” as much as learning should be part of any serious relationship. However, I have never eliminated younger men from the dating pool specifically based on their age and the assumption that I would have to teach them/mother them.

Perhaps Dana and your friend are stereotyping these younger men. Perhaps the younger men are giving off a vibe of immaturity that the women can sense but not necessarily name and they don’t want to get involved.

You hit the nail on the head with this one:
“The fantasy of serving as both father figure and lover, as grotesque and incestuous as it sounds, is inscribed on the psyche of the European-American male…”

Ditto for this gem:

“The real issue is the simple and obvious one: most grown women already do plenty of teaching and care-giving and hand-holding within their families and their workplaces. Even those who are not mothers have probably spent a great deal of time doing for others what they cannot or will not do for themselves.”

Simply stated for most healthy adult women it’s not a sexual turn on to be in the role of caretaker, mother, teacher, and babysitter. It’s draining and not erotic in the least. It’s never been erotic to fantasize about sex with daddy either, not the life I want to lead. Both scenario’s in my mind do not rank high on the list of potential turn on’s, but rather turn offs and I equate such behaviors as unhealthy (RARE exceptions excluded). It’s not a “sublime delight” to engage in any way, shape or form in the emotional landscape of the unavailable and oblivious.

I think that Teresa is right… young men don’t mind dating the MILF, but actually getting permanently involved in all that baggage? I don’t think so.
I myself find anyone over thirty, divorced, or with kids, kinda scary, cos I know I am not emotionally ready for the kind of commitment, they often expect.
I’m young, and I like to date people around 5 years either side of my age.

There’s the issue of decreased fertility, diminished libido from menopause, the fact that women tend to show signs of aging before men do, and the servile, teachable attitude of a younger person as mentioned in your post. Older women don’t merely need to be sexy to young men, they also need to be seen as desirable wives.

my brother is 8 years younger than i. he and i are good friends and we hang out a lot, so sometimes i end up in situations where i’m also hanging out with his friends. these guys who are a decade younger than i seem all too aware that i’m “in my sexual prime.” their fantasy isn’t about a mother/caretaker figure; it’s about capitalizing on my hormones. but what a turn-off when a 26 year old says, in front of your brother for cryin out loud, at thanksgiving dinner, “your sister is in her sexual prime, dude!” no parents were present, thankfully, but still: ugh.

on the other end of the spectrum, i think it could be argued that in a relationship between a younger woman and a much older man, in some senses the younger woman has some power over the man because she could get a younger man if she wanted. he’s lucky to have her and he knows it…?

lastly, i will admit that the idea of “breaking in” some hunky young buck is fun in concept, but in reality the older woman knows that it will probably be a very unsatisfying sexual experience for her.

and as always, there are exceptions to every generalization and someone will always have an individual experience that will defy the “rule.” i realize that but that’s not going to stop me from saying that, in general, in my experience, men only get better with age. i’d take a 46 year old over a 26 year old anytime.