Comments on: Agency, ambivalence, and desire: some preliminary thoughts on the Miley Cyrus kerfuffle http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/ Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:08:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Karen http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342725 Karen Wed, 14 May 2008 19:07:59 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342725 Some people are more naturally expressive and demonstrative of affection than others. I used to hug (appropriately) and occasionally touch (lower arms) etc., much more than what I do now..I've stopped due to people reacting inappropriately or misreading--men sexualize immediately and women are suspicious. Their inappropriate reactions have done much to inhibit my responses towards them and others. I've also become far more reserved than what I used to demonstrate and less willing to discuss my emotions or private life and thoughts. Again I see this as a direct consequence of how people responded to me. I had a man coworker/supervisor one tell me that I used my hands to much when I talk and that it was distracting from what I had to say...Some cultures use their hands more expressively than others...The strong message that I've received is to stifle my true self and pretend, in order to survive. I agree that suspicion has disastrous costs, but then so does misintrepretation and sexualization of physical affection. Some people are more naturally expressive and demonstrative of affection than others. I used to hug (appropriately) and occasionally touch (lower arms) etc., much more than what I do now..I’ve stopped due to people reacting inappropriately or misreading–men sexualize immediately and women are suspicious. Their inappropriate reactions have done much to inhibit my responses towards them and others. I’ve also become far more reserved than what I used to demonstrate and less willing to discuss my emotions or private life and thoughts. Again I see this as a direct consequence of how people responded to me. I had a man coworker/supervisor one tell me that I used my hands to much when I talk and that it was distracting from what I had to say…Some cultures use their hands more expressively than others…The strong message that I’ve received is to stifle my true self and pretend, in order to survive. I agree that suspicion has disastrous costs, but then so does misintrepretation and sexualization of physical affection.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342683 Hugo Schwyzer Wed, 14 May 2008 16:53:27 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342683 Here, here, Nav. As I say in the post I reprint today, we live in a culture that is immensely suspicious of physical affection, and that suspicion has disastrous costs. Here, here, Nav. As I say in the post I reprint today, we live in a culture that is immensely suspicious of physical affection, and that suspicion has disastrous costs.

]]> By: Nav http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342682 Nav Wed, 14 May 2008 16:50:30 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342682 As someone who has a very tactile relationship with her family (not inappropriate, I might emphasize), I really am getting annoyed with all this talk about her "creepy" dad and the "cuddling." I'm in my 30s and still will cuddle up next to whatever parent I am watching TV with. I also do it with my brother when we both happen to be visiting. Seriously, is everyone is from one of those no-touching puritanical families or is it just some kind of weird alternate universe of no hugs that I moved into? My family and I are comfortable around each other and it's not a big deal! Keee-rist! As someone who has a very tactile relationship with her family (not inappropriate, I might emphasize), I really am getting annoyed with all this talk about her “creepy” dad and the “cuddling.” I’m in my 30s and still will cuddle up next to whatever parent I am watching TV with. I also do it with my brother when we both happen to be visiting. Seriously, is everyone is from one of those no-touching puritanical families or is it just some kind of weird alternate universe of no hugs that I moved into? My family and I are comfortable around each other and it’s not a big deal! Keee-rist!

]]> By: Oriscus http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342352 Oriscus Wed, 14 May 2008 05:31:30 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342352 Now, I know I'm not the only one who saw the one widely-circulated image from Annie Leibovitz's Miley Cyrus photoshoot and though "aw. Cosette. That's cute," and thought no more about it. What I can't understand is how it could be that *this is where the dust-up occurs and not over the overt commodification/sexualization that is a part of Cyrus' whole Disneycated persona - and that of Hillary Duff before her, and on and on back to at least Annette Funicello. Come *on, people! Now, I know I’m not the only one who saw the one widely-circulated image from Annie Leibovitz’s Miley Cyrus photoshoot and though “aw. Cosette. That’s cute,” and thought no more about it.

What I can’t understand is how it could be that *this is where the dust-up occurs and not over the overt commodification/sexualization that is a part of Cyrus’ whole Disneycated persona - and that of Hillary Duff before her, and on and on back to at least Annette Funicello.

Come *on, people!

]]> By: Brenda http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342061 Brenda Tue, 13 May 2008 22:59:16 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-342061 Hugo, I like the way your commentary struck a balance between the idea that Miley Cyrus is an actual agent with abilities, and it's an adult's responsibility to not sexualize teens, not the teen's, but I think it's important not to forget how stage-managed Cyrus's career is. This girl is worth a lot of money to a lot of people; a Vanity Fair photoshoot isn't about self-expression; it's about self-promotion. I think it's entirely possible that she knew what she was doing and wanted to express herself sexually, and I think it's very probable that Miley's "people" (including her parents) knew what they were doing when they set up a shoot with Annie Leibowitz. The whole thing is being "sold," and has done a very good job of putting Miley in the public eye; look, we're talking about her, and we probably wouldn't have been otherwise. Hugo, I like the way your commentary struck a balance between the idea that Miley Cyrus is an actual agent with abilities, and it’s an adult’s responsibility to not sexualize teens, not the teen’s, but I think it’s important not to forget how stage-managed Cyrus’s career is. This girl is worth a lot of money to a lot of people; a Vanity Fair photoshoot isn’t about self-expression; it’s about self-promotion. I think it’s entirely possible that she knew what she was doing and wanted to express herself sexually, and I think it’s very probable that Miley’s “people” (including her parents) knew what they were doing when they set up a shoot with Annie Leibowitz. The whole thing is being “sold,” and has done a very good job of putting Miley in the public eye; look, we’re talking about her, and we probably wouldn’t have been otherwise.

]]> By: Cynthia http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341993 Cynthia Tue, 13 May 2008 22:04:49 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341993 Great discussion on a topic that initially appears to be about celebrity sillyness and actually reveals our confusion and contempt for adolescent sexuality. As a parent, I hear lots of our friends with kids this age, or on the verge of this age refer to their kids as being negative, but I always wonder how much is a reflection of the energy they receive from adults. What's telling to me about this situation, marketed or not, is that how angry folks got at Miley. Perhaps we're angry at her for growing, failing to (appear to) remain innocent and are confused by our own response to that emerging sexuality. The seething anger, from fans, from parents from Disney execs, etc is absolutely not about a photo session, but about the emerging sexuality from an appealing kid. We can all think back to how uncomfortable our family was when we hit puberty, imagine if you did it in front of a room full of suits who were banking on you. It would be hard to make those grown up assertions in any case. Great discussion on a topic that initially appears to be about celebrity sillyness and actually reveals our confusion and contempt for adolescent sexuality. As a parent, I hear lots of our friends with kids this age, or on the verge of this age refer to their kids as being negative, but I always wonder how much is a reflection of the energy they receive from adults. What’s telling to me about this situation, marketed or not, is that how angry folks got at Miley. Perhaps we’re angry at her for growing, failing to (appear to) remain innocent and are confused by our own response to that emerging sexuality. The seething anger, from fans, from parents from Disney execs, etc is absolutely not about a photo session, but about the emerging sexuality from an appealing kid. We can all think back to how uncomfortable our family was when we hit puberty, imagine if you did it in front of a room full of suits who were banking on you. It would be hard to make those grown up assertions in any case.

]]> By: B http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341707 B Tue, 13 May 2008 15:29:43 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341707 prefer, Mandy Moore fits your wish, I believe. I remember when she was a teenager, she said in interviews her mom wouldn't let her wear revealing clothing. Now she's been using her music (song choices, style) to project that she's no longer a bubblegum teen pop star, but rather a grownup singer/songwriter. Unfortunately, she does seem to be the exception rather than the norm, but it's good to know it can happen. I was always very confused about Christina Aguilera's assertion that her nakedness was to signify that she was no longer a teen pop star. As I've aged, I haven't lost any of my clothing. prefer,

Mandy Moore fits your wish, I believe. I remember when she was a teenager, she said in interviews her mom wouldn’t let her wear revealing clothing. Now she’s been using her music (song choices, style) to project that she’s no longer a bubblegum teen pop star, but rather a grownup singer/songwriter.

Unfortunately, she does seem to be the exception rather than the norm, but it’s good to know it can happen.

I was always very confused about Christina Aguilera’s assertion that her nakedness was to signify that she was no longer a teen pop star. As I’ve aged, I haven’t lost any of my clothing.

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341705 Hugo Schwyzer Tue, 13 May 2008 15:27:51 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341705 That's an excellent point, pnts. We make a huge and damaging mistake when we privilege sexual maturation over other markers of growing up, such as the ones you suggest. The expression of sexual agency is one, but hardly the only, sign of the transition towards adulthood. And it's impossible to have a healthy attitude towards young women's sexuality until we stop focusing on it so relentlessly. That’s an excellent point, pnts. We make a huge and damaging mistake when we privilege sexual maturation over other markers of growing up, such as the ones you suggest. The expression of sexual agency is one, but hardly the only, sign of the transition towards adulthood. And it’s impossible to have a healthy attitude towards young women’s sexuality until we stop focusing on it so relentlessly.

]]> By: prefer not to say http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341703 prefer not to say Tue, 13 May 2008 15:22:06 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341703 I think the thing that discomfits me the most about the Miley Cyrus brouhaha is that it just seems to solidify the pop culture tradition of hailing a young female star as "grown up" when she does something that can be recognized as overtly sexual. Wouldn't it be nice if there was any room in the industry for understanding female pop stars as "growing up" when they started co-writing their own songs, or producing, or becoming more involved in choreographing, or any number of other "grown up" assertions of control that make sense in the context of the industry? I think the thing that discomfits me the most about the Miley Cyrus brouhaha is that it just seems to solidify the pop culture tradition of hailing a young female star as “grown up” when she does something that can be recognized as overtly sexual. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was any room in the industry for understanding female pop stars as “growing up” when they started co-writing their own songs, or producing, or becoming more involved in choreographing, or any number of other “grown up” assertions of control that make sense in the context of the industry?

]]> By: Hugo Schwyzer http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341699 Hugo Schwyzer Tue, 13 May 2008 15:09:38 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/12/agency-ambivalence-and-desire-some-preliminary-thoughts-on-the-miley-cyrus-kerfuffle/#comment-341699 Don't worry, B, Rafael will live in moderation from now on -- he threw up the darned softball that needed to be smacked good. Don’t worry, B, Rafael will live in moderation from now on — he threw up the darned softball that needed to be smacked good.

]]>