Comments on: Reprint: A longish entry on male insecurity and anti-feminist backlash http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/22/reprint-a-longish-entry-on-male-insecurity-and-anti-feminist-backlash/ Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:56:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Karen http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/22/reprint-a-longish-entry-on-male-insecurity-and-anti-feminist-backlash/#comment-364486 Karen Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:35:09 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/22/reprint-a-longish-entry-on-male-insecurity-and-anti-feminist-backlash/#comment-364486 A co-worker I once knew was a bodybuilder. The man always talked about very personal subjects focusing on his looks and body. He would look at the emerging hair on his arm and then say that it looked dirty. He would whine about how he was getting fat. The fat part was the cue for the female coworkers to insist he wasn't and to get attention. He was very focused on his body. I learned from him that bodybuilder's shave their hair and oil up. I didn't know this previously, because my response to him about the hair thing was that hair was natural. He got into more personal discussions, about the penis and how it hung. I always tried to get away from him. I always tried to steer the conversation to work, or to extricate myself from his presence or the conversation, because nothing worked. He told me that he was asked to be the "Greek God," in the Summer Solstice festival in SB, and then "acted," like he was insulted, because he claimed the gays asked him too. He discussed his mother's plastic surgery and all the men who swarmed around her, and all the "40 year-old women," who he knew wanted to be with him because of his youth and looks. Once when he came to work his nose and face was very sunburned. I warned him of the dangers and his flippant response was to say, "Young and beautiful. Old and ugly." Your post reminded me of him and he was the first male that I met who exhibited that type of physical obsession to that degree. I believe more are out there. I wouldn't even begin to know how to address someone like him. I do believe marketing and consumerism has a lot to do with the obsessional focus on looks, but I believe it also starts with our parents and what they model to us as well. A co-worker I once knew was a bodybuilder. The man always talked about very personal subjects focusing on his looks and body. He would look at the emerging hair on his arm and then say that it looked dirty. He would whine about how he was getting fat. The fat part was the cue for the female coworkers to insist he wasn’t and to get attention. He was very focused on his body. I learned from him that bodybuilder’s shave their hair and oil up. I didn’t know this previously, because my response to him about the hair thing was that hair was natural. He got into more personal discussions, about the penis and how it hung. I always tried to get away from him. I always tried to steer the conversation to work, or to extricate myself from his presence or the conversation, because nothing worked. He told me that he was asked to be the “Greek God,” in the Summer Solstice festival in SB, and then “acted,” like he was insulted, because he claimed the gays asked him too. He discussed his mother’s plastic surgery and all the men who swarmed around her, and all the “40 year-old women,” who he knew wanted to be with him because of his youth and looks. Once when he came to work his nose and face was very sunburned. I warned him of the dangers and his flippant response was to say, “Young and beautiful. Old and ugly.” Your post reminded me of him and he was the first male that I met who exhibited that type of physical obsession to that degree. I believe more are out there. I wouldn’t even begin to know how to address someone like him. I do believe marketing and consumerism has a lot to do with the obsessional focus on looks, but I believe it also starts with our parents and what they model to us as well.

]]> By: christina http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/22/reprint-a-longish-entry-on-male-insecurity-and-anti-feminist-backlash/#comment-357137 christina Wed, 28 May 2008 15:11:09 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/05/22/reprint-a-longish-entry-on-male-insecurity-and-anti-feminist-backlash/#comment-357137 Hugo, I haven't been here in a while, but happy birthday! Regarding the content of the post, I agree that the main culprit here is capitalism. However, I do think that changing ideas about sex (meaning the act) and gender have contributed to the rise in eating disorders among men. Beginning to view women as sexual agents or as "viewers" of male bodies may have given capitalism the opening to capitalize on male insecurity in the same way that it capitalizes on female insecurity. The problem is the objectification that is inherent in capitalism; the problem is not feminism. However, feminism may have played a role in opening a new market. I think that feminism may have played a role because there is a misconstrued sense that feminism means that things should be "equal" instead of better for everyone. I think that many people take that to mean that since women are objectified, men should be as well. (Of course, looking at this from a Marxist perspective, men have always been objectified. The difference is that men are objectified as workers and women as sex toys.) I personally and I think a lot of feminists feel that NO ONE should be objectified. However, what has filtered into popular culture is the message that things should be equal as opposed to the message that objectification of people is a problem. I don't know if this can be attributed to an incomplete understanding of feminism or early feminists stressing equality rather than improvement for everyone. Hugo, I haven’t been here in a while, but happy birthday!

Regarding the content of the post, I agree that the main culprit here is capitalism. However, I do think that changing ideas about sex (meaning the act) and gender have contributed to the rise in eating disorders among men. Beginning to view women as sexual agents or as “viewers” of male bodies may have given capitalism the opening to capitalize on male insecurity in the same way that it capitalizes on female insecurity. The problem is the objectification that is inherent in capitalism; the problem is not feminism. However, feminism may have played a role in opening a new market.

I think that feminism may have played a role because there is a misconstrued sense that feminism means that things should be “equal” instead of better for everyone. I think that many people take that to mean that since women are objectified, men should be as well. (Of course, looking at this from a Marxist perspective, men have always been objectified. The difference is that men are objectified as workers and women as sex toys.) I personally and I think a lot of feminists feel that NO ONE should be objectified. However, what has filtered into popular culture is the message that things should be equal as opposed to the message that objectification of people is a problem. I don’t know if this can be attributed to an incomplete understanding of feminism or early feminists stressing equality rather than improvement for everyone.

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