I will, however, say that I think that if so many men were truly polyamorous, they wouldn’t have these jealousy issues about their partner “getting theirs, too.” That’s just about wanting to have your cake and eat it, too, from where I stand.

“That may not be how most people operate with you.”

First, not just with me.

“But there are whole communities of people out there who live by the code of living openly and honestly, particularly when it comes to sexuality and their partners.”

So, I’ve heard, from people (males) who tried to recruit and convince me, but who were duplicitious in their actions. Talk is cheap, actions demonstrate character. I value trusting, committed relationships and yes, monogomy with (a man) who values the same. And I don’t view it as ownership or possessiveness. To be frank, those were just the type of labels people used to try to manipulate me to their desires and what they wanted. It had nothing to do with me and was all about them.

“Yes, there are people who abuse the trust they gain with others. There are people who abuse the power they have with firearms or positions of authority or simply the right to drive. There are bad people in the world, and good ones too.”

I was specifically speaking about sexuality, not firearms, etc., why leap to that. Sexuality is very personal and it’s a core issue, one which I respect. The people I’ve met who espouse your beliefs about sexuality are the very people who abused trust and power. Yes, some people are willing to experiment, but they change and when they do, they are critical of group dynamics which they feel betrayed them.

“If you expect to be burned, you’re likely to make it come true. I know too many sad people who live in that cycle and can’t seem to break themselves out of it.” “I can’t fix it for them, I can only offer my sympathy and an example of what could be.”

Making sweeping generalizations doesn’t help your argument and is not convincing. Is your position so weak that you would have to resort to cliches? What exactly or who are you trying to fix? If they are not interested in your lifestyle, respect that. I’m certain they’ll find good compatible people who value and share the same beliefs, instead of trying to change or recruit them. Everything you say here is dejavu and sounds very similar to members of cults who are actively recruiting members. I think it wise to learn how to respect other people’s values and choices when they are different from your own, and not try to recruit them with sympathy and cliches. Respect and value their choices and move on. No need to sell them or try to lecture them unless your aim is to win converts and to feel superior.

That may not be how most people operate with you. But there are whole communities of people out there who live by the code of living openly and honestly, particularly when it comes to sexuality and their partners. We have a friend who has stated her interest in joining our partnership, but is refraining because she already has too many commitments. All of us are fine with that, because sex isn’t a DEMAND for us. We’re none of us slaves to our desires, and none of us are putting our friendships at risk over it.

Yes, there are people who abuse the trust they gain with others. There are people who abuse the power they have with firearms or positions of authority or simply the right to drive. There are bad people in the world, and good ones too. If you expect to be burned, you’re likely to make it come true. I know too many sad people who live in that cycle and can’t seem to break themselves out of it. I can’t fix it for them, I can only offer my sympathy and an example of what could be.

Everything you wrote here resonated with me profoundly: the essentially selfish reasons for monogamy, the debunking of Weiss’s naturalistic fallacy, the frustration with the ways male privilege leads men to become people who cannot be trusted or relied upon.

One other important point about the article:

I haven’t ever seen anyone who doesn’t deliver on every single demand their sexuality makes on them.

Even if this were true one some level (which I don’t actually believe, at least not in any strong form): people are usually capable of arranging the structure of their lives to avoid bad outcomes, even if their will at the crucial moment isn’t up to the task of resisting temptation. Women are expected to do this all the time with regard to sexual risks like rape; if men’s libidos are truly as out of control as the speaker claims, then surely men should be obliged to be careful about what sorts of situations they put themselves in.

But of course, they aren’t; the onus is always on women to prevent illicit sex.

If you’re upfront and honest about your intentions then someone can make an informed decision. No one likes being lied too. No one likes deception or manipulation. If I met men who said right in the beginning, I’m attracted to you physically and want sex and I’m not monogamous, then one could say, no, I’m not interested or whatever. That isn’t how most people operate. They lie, deceive and manipulate (and engage in excuse making for their destructive behaviors) to get what they want. Most are not upfront, but try to romance and seduce to get you to like them before they sprng their beliefs on you…and then they try to persuade you to their way of thinking. If that trick doesn’t work, then they insult and label to bully you and resort to infantile tantrums and cynicism. Most men who claimed polyamory did so after the fact…They were neither open or honest. And most tried to persue a 13 year-old-girl with their “open” sexuality. If they had been honest about their intentions to begin with, then I would have told them to take a hike and that I wasn’t interested. Instead they then attempted to persuade me to their thinking and lecture me while at the same time labeling me with critical, judgmental terms–which I see as bullying. I condemn people who lie and deceive others, about their sexuality and other behaviors, and especially more so for males who bother under-age teenage girls.

I don’t think the blog was suggesting that monogamy is default. I’ve never really cared much about other people’s sex lives. Some people are really into statistics about other people’s sexuality, maybe they indentify with them or it helps them to feel normal. I don’t know. I’ve never been a voyeur or keeping up with the Jones’s about anything. I don’t care to be exposed to their issues.

Polyamory is not for everyone. Not everyone can handle the thought of their lover seeing someone else, even if they expect the same privilege for themselves. Some people ARE just out for as much sex as they can find. But mature, responsible adults can and have handled it in loving, lasting relationships as my lady and I are proving.

The point is that monogamy is not the default, and shouldn’t be hailed as such. People should be given the information to make informed choices. Some people can’t handle monogamy. Some people can’t handle polyamory. It’s no use condemning folk for having a preference one way or another, so long as everyone is honest about it.

I don’t think that monogomy is about possession, nor do I believe that commitment implies a deed of ownership. If you do not desire monogomy or commitment, and have no interest in it, then be honest with your prosepctive sex partners and say so, prior to pursuing someone/anyone. And don’t try to persuade someone to your point of view, because you are horney or they don’t think or believe as you do. I met a lot of men, who basically talked as you do. Basically, they just wanted sex and were trying to convince me to have sex. They didn’t care one iota about my feelings or beliefs. They made the same comments and said the same things and suggested that they were promoting my sexual rights, etc. They just wanted to have sex with me–all the other stuff was BS and I didn’t buy into it. If you’re one of those people who like to argue sexual diversity and biology, then there are studies on jealousy, exclusivity and pair-bonding as well. Jealosy is a normal reaction to perceived threats to pair-bonding, etc., and pair bonding is a natural desire. People are far more than just biology.

I’ve never met anyone who has maintained a “lasting, loving commitment,” without “sexual or emotional fidelity,” unless you are talking about family or parents. Those people who are indoctrinated into communes and polygamous beliefs, generally are stifled into obeying oppressive doctrines. Some people who escape such restrictive situations don’t speak highly of their involvement, but talk about the destructive impact to their lives.

People are more than their biology.

Am I saying that moral code is inherently wrong? No, of course not. I am saying that this moral code is not inherently RIGHT, either. What this piece is effectively doing is trying to reinforce the notion that monogamy is the ONLY acceptable practice, and that we just have to train ourselves into it.

But, given our national AND global propensity for cheating, it would seem that we’re not very good at this training. Yes, we have some faithful few like our author who have learned to achieve this divine state after a few failed marriages, but by and large as a species we’re pretty bad at it. So why not consider alternatives for those who don’t have the willpower to go to the gym three times a week and sweat at the barbells?

Our patrilineal mindset automatically assumes that I’m just trying to justify womanizing. Most people don’t believe me when I promote women’s sexual rights as well as men’s. But that’s really what it’s about. Relationships aren’t about POSSESSING people. Commitments do not confer a deed of ownership (unless you’re into that sort of thing). A lasting, loving commitment can be made that does not include sexual or emotional fidelity. People do not have to be indoctrinated to believe that having more than one friend or lover automatically cheapens their relationship. I think you’ll find that to be a product of socialization rather than biology.

We want what we want. This is, in and of itself, not a bad thing. But we’re inclined to pursue what we want regardless of the cost, and that’s where problems enter. An alternative solution is to accept that we’re not wired the way we’ve been taught to expect and to be open and honest about our desires. If we can actually talk to our partners about what excites us, what we desire and what we want to pursue without our partners automatically assuming that it’s an affront to them, we might find a peace never dreamed by our Puritan-minded ancestors.

In purely anecdotal evidence, as offered by the author, the solution I’ve outlined above has been working for me. I know it won’t work for the author, just as the author’s solution hasn’t worked for me. There is no single solution that works for everyone. Only solutions that work.

I have a friend who works for a multinational corp, HQ in the US. They are having a bit of luck trying to train Mexicans in not harassing the female help. South of Mexico, they don’t even bother. It’s like the entire idea came from Mars.