Comments on: Loving the whole earth, loving the single place: a long response to Gregory Rodriguez, quoting Abbey and Hauerwas http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/ Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:24:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Douglas, Friend of Osho http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-402648 Douglas, Friend of Osho Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:56:43 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-402648 Thanks for the riposte, Hugo. Some of that much-vaunted "social capital"---no, I take it back, a lot of it wears a bigoted face. I don't know how much of it you saw growing up in Carmel, but in Pacific Grove, a lot of the energy poured into improving the town centered on keeping it the way it was. This involved a lot of sneering at outsiders. They can have it; some places deserve to suffer. Thanks for the riposte, Hugo. Some of that much-vaunted “social capital”—no, I take it back, a lot of it wears a bigoted face. I don’t know how much of it you saw growing up in Carmel, but in Pacific Grove, a lot of the energy poured into improving the town centered on keeping it the way it was. This involved a lot of sneering at outsiders. They can have it; some places deserve to suffer.

]]> By: Lisa http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-401883 Lisa Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:22:12 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-401883 Though I agree with Hugo here more than with the op-ed, there is one issue that I think is key to any concern about our dwindling loyalties to places. And that is that if people are free to go, and find it easy to leave, they won't have as much invested in improving the place where they are. Nationalism/parochialism is certainly a problem when it leads us to benefit one place at the detriment of others, but there is something to be said for (at least) going back to help out in one's old neighborhood, rather than simply moving away and waving it off. When all the well-to-do and cultural elites are moving together, the places they flock to do well but the places they leave certainly suffer. Though I agree with Hugo here more than with the op-ed, there is one issue that I think is key to any concern about our dwindling loyalties to places. And that is that if people are free to go, and find it easy to leave, they won’t have as much invested in improving the place where they are. Nationalism/parochialism is certainly a problem when it leads us to benefit one place at the detriment of others, but there is something to be said for (at least) going back to help out in one’s old neighborhood, rather than simply moving away and waving it off. When all the well-to-do and cultural elites are moving together, the places they flock to do well but the places they leave certainly suffer.

]]> By: catie http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-400490 catie Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:06:58 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-400490 I dislike the thinking in this op-ed as well. It smells to me of self-rightious nationalist pride. While I agree that globalization has complicated many people's idenities, I don't precive such complications to be neagtive. I believe there is a great deal that can be learned from people who hold multiple passports. My father who is a physiologist has employed a number of people from china to work in his lab. Frequently these people came with out their family and had a difficult time adjusting to their new lives. To help his emloyees through this rough adjustment period my father often invited them to be invloved in our family to the extent of coming on vaction with us. I'm so glad that people from the Chineese culture have been invloved in my life. I feel that I have learned a lot about the diffrinces in the world and how important it is to both value diffreince and find ways to communicate and understand one another despite diffrences. I can not speak to where my father's employees hold their loyalty and to me it doesn't matter. What matters to me is who they each are as individuals. As for my own loyalty I can tell you that I have been so angered by the actions of this country that there have been times I have considred moving to another country. Ultimately I have decided to stay because I feel I must be a part of the internal critical voice; but this is not because I feel loyal to America. It is becasue I feel I must do what I can, in the situation which has been given to me, to make the world a better place. By this I mean I must act with in my own community at a community level to solve the issues which afflict us globaly---think globaly act localy. P.S Hugo I love Edward Abbey too. I can only imagine what he might say if he were alive today. I dislike the thinking in this op-ed as well. It smells to me of self-rightious nationalist pride. While I agree that globalization has complicated many people’s idenities, I don’t precive such complications to be neagtive. I believe there is a great deal that can be learned from people who hold multiple passports. My father who is a physiologist has employed a number of people from china to work in his lab. Frequently these people came with out their family and had a difficult time adjusting to their new lives. To help his emloyees through this rough adjustment period my father often invited them to be invloved in our family to the extent of coming on vaction with us. I’m so glad that people from the Chineese culture have been invloved in my life. I feel that I have learned a lot about the diffrinces in the world and how important it is to both value diffreince and find ways to communicate and understand one another despite diffrences. I can not speak to where my father’s employees hold their loyalty and to me it doesn’t matter. What matters to me is who they each are as individuals.

As for my own loyalty I can tell you that I have been so angered by the actions of this country that there have been times I have considred moving to another country. Ultimately I have decided to stay because I feel I must be a part of the internal critical voice; but this is not because I feel loyal to America. It is becasue I feel I must do what I can, in the situation which has been given to me, to make the world a better place. By this I mean I must act with in my own community at a community level to solve the issues which afflict us globaly—think globaly act localy.

P.S Hugo I love Edward Abbey too. I can only imagine what he might say if he were alive today.

]]> By: Rainbow http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-400422 Rainbow Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:55:17 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-400422 Many interesting passport situations are geared to avoiding taxes in any country. There is a lot to object to the rich avoiding taxes anywhere. Many interesting passport situations are geared to avoiding taxes in any country. There is a lot to object to the rich avoiding taxes anywhere.

]]> By: Tom http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-400339 Tom Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:43:15 +0000 http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/06/27/loving-the-earth-loving-the-single-place-a-long-response-to-gregory-rodriguez-quoting-abbey-and-hauerwas/#comment-400339 That's a hopeful take on people's allegiances. It would be great if we could all be citizens of the world. I worry though, and maybe Rodriguez does too, about whether people today who are on the one hand much more diverse and mobile than maybe ever before and on the other in some ways more insular and plugged in to their own paradoxically parochial interests (on the internet, through politics, religion, etc.) really are that attached to any particular place. This unique city of ours was the most significant case study for Robert Putnam at Harvard, author of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684832836/" rel="nofollow">"Bowling Alone"</a>, who argues that we are losing "social capital" and cohesion as we do become more mobile, diverse, and focused on our own lives. We're all bunkered up here on the freeways, divided by language, geography, class, etc. And we see sometimes new fractures developing, new attachments and rivalries that go entirely beyond local place (your flirtations with English football hooliganism in evidence ). I remember being in the Bay Area during the Olympic Torch run, and the protests over China's actions in Tibet. The pro-Tibetan protesters, for the first time I've ever seen, were outnumbered by the pro-China ones. With the Olympics stirring up pride, everyone was hanging out their flag and sparring over something that was going on 8000 miles away. While I'd like to see more globally-focused thinking and feeling, I worry that it may be too abstract and remote for most of us. The alternative to some sort of propositional local / national attachment for most of us I worry won't be some attachment to humanity as a whole but balkanization along ethnic, or racial, or religious, or whatever lines. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I guess we're running the experiment. That’s a hopeful take on people’s allegiances. It would be great if we could all be citizens of the world. I worry though, and maybe Rodriguez does too, about whether people today who are on the one hand much more diverse and mobile than maybe ever before and on the other in some ways more insular and plugged in to their own paradoxically parochial interests (on the internet, through politics, religion, etc.) really are that attached to any particular place. This unique city of ours was the most significant case study for Robert Putnam at Harvard, author of “Bowling Alone”, who argues that we are losing “social capital” and cohesion as we do become more mobile, diverse, and focused on our own lives. We’re all bunkered up here on the freeways, divided by language, geography, class, etc. And we see sometimes new fractures developing, new attachments and rivalries that go entirely beyond local place (your flirtations with English football hooliganism in evidence ). I remember being in the Bay Area during the Olympic Torch run, and the protests over China’s actions in Tibet. The pro-Tibetan protesters, for the first time I’ve ever seen, were outnumbered by the pro-China ones. With the Olympics stirring up pride, everyone was hanging out their flag and sparring over something that was going on 8000 miles away.

While I’d like to see more globally-focused thinking and feeling, I worry that it may be too abstract and remote for most of us. The alternative to some sort of propositional local / national attachment for most of us I worry won’t be some attachment to humanity as a whole but balkanization along ethnic, or racial, or religious, or whatever lines. Hopefully I’m wrong, but I guess we’re running the experiment.

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