From Bob Carlton, who passes along this musing on Sarah Palin’s speech and its many criticisms of Barack Obama:
Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor.
Martin Luther King, Jr? Community organizer. George Wallace? Governor.
You get the idea.
Word.
Americans United is a community organization. Bobby Jindal is a governor.
I sense meme potential here.
Oooh. May I quote Bob’s line, please?
Please?
I did, it’s public domain now!
I prefer to think of Jesus and King as community dis-organizers. “For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother…” etc. It makes me like them more.
George Wallace was a democrat except for the brief flirtation as an independent…not sure on Pilate, maybe he was with the Toga party.
So Gov. Palin is a Christ-killer now, eh? Wow. Just, wow.
I may be alone, but I never really blamed Pilate for what happened. I mean, Christ had to die! Why are we so pissed at the people who set that in motion? If forgiveness is paramount, then God forgave the ones who sent him to die, He forgave Pilate, and He forgave Judas. Why would He be angered at those who did what they had to do to set redemption in motion? If not for them, Christ would not have died for our sins, right?
Nav,
I think there’s quite an arguement to make that he shouldn’t, especially considering that those who most wanted to have Jesus put to death were the clergy members who brought him to various government authorities to try to do this.
That said, Pilate probably takes the most blame because of two things:
1. He was the last person who had the power to stop the crucifixion.
2. This is just a theory of mine, but I suspect that early church fathers (who wrote the creeds which mention Pilate) were irate with him for washing his hands and claiming to have no responsibility, so they declared the exact opposite to be the case in the Apostles creed. Has anyone read up on this?
Specious.
I’m no Palin fan, at all, but her point was not “community organizers” = bad, “governors” = good. Rather, community organizer is not qualification for running a country. There are soft tosses from her speech you could hit out of the park; swing at those. But, from the other side of the aisle, this is just silly.
Stephen
Stephen, we heard different things — I heard not only the suggestion that “community organizer” was an insufficient qualification for leadership, but a more generalized slur against the entire profession.
And the point is not the Palin is Pilate or Obama the Messiah. The point is, community organizing has a long history, and many of the greatest and most important leaders worked in that profession.
Hugo:
So it goes, two people can hear different things. I would, gently, suggest that until it’s clear that she is disparaging volunteerism, she be given the benefit of the doubt. Similar to when Obama suggested he wouldn’t want his daughter to be “punished with a child.” Easy to read that he sees children as a punishment. “But that’s absurd; that’s not what he meant; consider the context.”
Precisely.
Don’t waste your breath here. It’s a strawman.
Advice from “the other side.”
Stephen
Craig: “Americans United is a community organization. Bobby Jindal is a governor.”
That doesn’t strengthen your case, Craig, just so you know. Jindal is one of the bright young prospects in politics (as are Obama and Palin), and four or eight years down the road, HE may be on one of the major tickets. Why not say that Mother Teresa is a community organizer, while Slick Willie was a governor? See how that works?
And, as has been stated, Palin made that crack only because people are unjustifiably questioning HER credentials.
bmmg39,
Palin explicitly referred to being a community organizer in the generic sense; if she had simply said “… sort of like Obama’s experience as a community organizer”, then it still would have been insulting, but at least she’d be just insulting one person who happens to be her political opponent. Instead, this was a slap in the face of all community organizers and volunteers. Very snobby, I’d say.
Bmmg39-
“Unjustifiably”? She’s barely been a governor, and before that she was a mayor of a small town. I think it’s fair to question how much experience she has.
Antigone -
Not very concerned when that lack of experience from the bottom half of the ticket on one side compares more favorably to the experience from the top of the ticket on the other. But I can see why Sen. Obama is taking that track. It’s far easier than comparing his experience to Sen. McCain’s.
Or does that somehow become irrelevant?
“Instead, this was a slap in the face of all community organizers and volunteers. Very snobby, I’d say.”
Then the Obama camp insulted everyone who’s ever been active in local government. Can’t have it both ways.
“She’s barely been a governor, and before that she was a mayor of a small town. I think it’s fair to question how much experience she has.”
And the answer to that question is: “Almost two years more executive experience than any of the other people on the two major tickets.” That doesn’t even include her time as mayor. Perhaps she won’t say something so frighteningly naïve as The Anointed One’s comment that we needn’t worry about Iran because it’s such a “tiny” country.
bmmg39, you couldn’t have missed my point more if you’d tried. I was playing off of Carlton’s Jesus/Pilate dichotomy with my own: separation of church and state vs. legislated creationism.
I’m well aware of Jindal’s up-and-coming status…which is specifically why I used him. His cohort (which includes Palin) handily represents the theocratic urges that increasingly dominate the GOP.
As I have said on other blogs, I prefer the King/Wallace version over the Jesus/Pilate version. We don’t need to push the (false) meme that (we think) Obama is the Messiah or the antisemitic undertone (because we all know Pilate was only acting under extreme pressure from those uppity Jewish elites, right?).
I do too, Lee. And it’s also true that Dr. King was a Republican….
http://www.trustedpartner.com/docs/library/000143/Alevda%20King%20-%20Dr.%20Martin%20Luther%20King%20Jr%20Was%20A%20Republican.wmv
…And George Wallace was a Democrat.
“I’m well aware of Jindal’s up-and-coming status…which is specifically why I used him. His cohort (which includes Palin) handily represents the theocratic urges that increasingly dominate the GOP.”
I’m just fine with church/state separatist groups so long as they don’t overstep their bounds into issues not religious. One can oppose embryonic stem-cell research and partial-birth abortion, for examples, without coming from a religious point of view.
Um, Jesus wasn’t a community organizer…
In fact, I think anytime anyone actually understood anything he said besides his disciples, there was a sudden disorganized rush to kill him.
And, while Pilate was a governor, the people voted for a murderer over Jesus… (Are we seeing how the situation is totally different than the current one?)
Of course, it’s interesting how all the people who freak out about people who express their Christianity are the ones who are now using this phrase.
To boot, neither was elected, at least not by the communities they led.
My thinking in all this is to remember Jesus words, which are actually in the Bible, as opposed to this phrase.
Jesus says, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.”
I’m not really worried.
Obama IS NOT Jesus.
Nor is Palin Pilate.
God’s going to get done what he wants to get done. I don’t think it matters if Obama or Biden or McCain or Palin is President. God’s God. He’s going to do reality how He wants it.
To think that the President of the USA is going to change the course of history is arrogant.
Where were you, Job?
Anyway, those are my two cents. Take them or leave them.