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	<title>Comments on: God is not impressed by the orgasm you didn&#8217;t have: of sin, Lent, therapy, and Rod Dreher</title>
	<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Hugo Schwyzer</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-512376</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schwyzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-512376</guid>
		<description>Good points, Adrienne -- and I appreciate enormously the gentle reminder of my own tendency towards bootless self-abnegation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Adrienne &#8212; and I appreciate enormously the gentle reminder of my own tendency towards bootless self-abnegation!</p>
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		<title>By: Adrienne Travis</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-512207</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrienne Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 05:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-512207</guid>
		<description>Hey, Hugo. I remember making this comment years ago on your site, and was able to find it again: http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/23/a-note-on-why-hugo-hates-getting-massaged/#comment-59928

The short version of my previous comment: There's an idea in Jewish theology that i've always loved (despite my not being Jewish), that when you go before God at the end of your life, he will call you to account -- not only for any forbidden or sinful things you did -- but for every *permissible* pleasure that you never tried.

I dug it up because of this line: "God isn’t impressed by the truffle you didn’t eat or the orgasm you didn’t have." It really does seem to be a point that a lot of conservative Christian (and even some conservative Jewish) theology misses entirely. 

"God made the world, and He saw that it was good." If that's true, how can orgasms, or truffles, or fast cars, or the Internet -- or ANYTHING, really -- be bad in and of themselves? And how can self-abnegation be anything other than insulting and abusing one of God's creatures?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Hugo. I remember making this comment years ago on your site, and was able to find it again: <a href="http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/23/a-note-on-why-hugo-hates-getting-massaged/#comment-59928" rel="nofollow">http://hugoschwyzer.net/2007/05/23/a-note-on-why-hugo-hates-getting-massaged/#comment-59928</a></p>
<p>The short version of my previous comment: There&#8217;s an idea in Jewish theology that i&#8217;ve always loved (despite my not being Jewish), that when you go before God at the end of your life, he will call you to account &#8212; not only for any forbidden or sinful things you did &#8212; but for every *permissible* pleasure that you never tried.</p>
<p>I dug it up because of this line: &#8220;God isn’t impressed by the truffle you didn’t eat or the orgasm you didn’t have.&#8221; It really does seem to be a point that a lot of conservative Christian (and even some conservative Jewish) theology misses entirely. </p>
<p>&#8220;God made the world, and He saw that it was good.&#8221; If that&#8217;s true, how can orgasms, or truffles, or fast cars, or the Internet &#8212; or ANYTHING, really &#8212; be bad in and of themselves? And how can self-abnegation be anything other than insulting and abusing one of God&#8217;s creatures?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507861</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507861</guid>
		<description>Hector, many of us Catholics wish the CATHOLICS would get serious about that ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hector, many of us Catholics wish the CATHOLICS would get serious about that ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Hector</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507859</link>
		<dc:creator>Hector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507859</guid>
		<description>Jendi, 

I couldn't disagree with you more. Preaching about sin needs to come BEFORE preaching about grace. Only people who realize they are sick, can be cured. The age of Law (e.g. the Jewish covenant) came before the age of Grace (the coming of Christ) precisely because it was necessary for men to realize how much God's justice demanded, and how much they fell short, before they could understand why Christ's death was necessary.

Personally I think that the modern church in America places much too much emphasis on 'self-care', 'therapy', and 'feeling good about yourself', and not enough emphasis on our base, sinful nature, and the need to overcome it. Self-love is, again, the root of all sin. I wish that my church would adopt the Roman Catholic practice of saying that no one should receive communion without first attending confession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jendi, </p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t disagree with you more. Preaching about sin needs to come BEFORE preaching about grace. Only people who realize they are sick, can be cured. The age of Law (e.g. the Jewish covenant) came before the age of Grace (the coming of Christ) precisely because it was necessary for men to realize how much God&#8217;s justice demanded, and how much they fell short, before they could understand why Christ&#8217;s death was necessary.</p>
<p>Personally I think that the modern church in America places much too much emphasis on &#8217;self-care&#8217;, &#8216;therapy&#8217;, and &#8216;feeling good about yourself&#8217;, and not enough emphasis on our base, sinful nature, and the need to overcome it. Self-love is, again, the root of all sin. I wish that my church would adopt the Roman Catholic practice of saying that no one should receive communion without first attending confession.</p>
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		<title>By: Jendi</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507796</link>
		<dc:creator>Jendi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 01:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507796</guid>
		<description>Great post!! Preaching about grace has to come before preaching about sin. Only when people understand that their core self is loved, cleansed and forgiven by God, can they feel safe enough to examine and change the ego and its cravings, without fearing personal disintegration ("who am I without my sins?"). R.R. Reno had a great post about this at First Things: "Fear of Redemption"
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=354


I've been too busy and/or lazy to blog about this myself yet, but I will eventually:
http://princetonprofs.blogspot.com/2009/02/womanist-lessons-resisting-lenten.html

This African-American Christian womanist blog talks about how the language of self-sacrifice is heard differently by women, who have been encouraged by society to sacrifice themselves in unhealthy ways. Self-care can be a Lenten discipline if you're codependent!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!! Preaching about grace has to come before preaching about sin. Only when people understand that their core self is loved, cleansed and forgiven by God, can they feel safe enough to examine and change the ego and its cravings, without fearing personal disintegration (&#8221;who am I without my sins?&#8221;). R.R. Reno had a great post about this at First Things: &#8220;Fear of Redemption&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=354" rel="nofollow">http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=354</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been too busy and/or lazy to blog about this myself yet, but I will eventually:<br />
<a href="http://princetonprofs.blogspot.com/2009/02/womanist-lessons-resisting-lenten.html" rel="nofollow">http://princetonprofs.blogspot.com/2009/02/womanist-lessons-resisting-lenten.html</a></p>
<p>This African-American Christian womanist blog talks about how the language of self-sacrifice is heard differently by women, who have been encouraged by society to sacrifice themselves in unhealthy ways. Self-care can be a Lenten discipline if you&#8217;re codependent!</p>
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		<title>By: Nav</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507718</link>
		<dc:creator>Nav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507718</guid>
		<description>I did a 30 hour famine with a youth group once to raise money for hunger ... that was difficult, especially considering one of the last things we did was serve dinner at a homeless shelter.  That was either poorly planned or somewhat sadistic.

Since then, I've done the two week "lemonade" fast once.  A week in, you don't miss food so much as you miss chewing.  Anyway, I wouldn't say it brought about any clarity, just a lot of trips to the bathroom.  Oh well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did a 30 hour famine with a youth group once to raise money for hunger &#8230; that was difficult, especially considering one of the last things we did was serve dinner at a homeless shelter.  That was either poorly planned or somewhat sadistic.</p>
<p>Since then, I&#8217;ve done the two week &#8220;lemonade&#8221; fast once.  A week in, you don&#8217;t miss food so much as you miss chewing.  Anyway, I wouldn&#8217;t say it brought about any clarity, just a lot of trips to the bathroom.  Oh well.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507625</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507625</guid>
		<description>heh. try a &lt;I&gt;total&lt;/I&gt; 25-hour fast (no water, either). I don't know how Muslims make it through Ramadan when it falls in the summer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>heh. try a <i>total</i> 25-hour fast (no water, either). I don&#8217;t know how Muslims make it through Ramadan when it falls in the summer.</p>
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		<title>By: figleaf</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507622</link>
		<dc:creator>figleaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507622</guid>
		<description>The problem arises as well, of course, when people take hedonistic pleasure in... self-denial and suffering.  I think it's, um, significant that that particular self-indulgence is, well, particularly common in the States.

Also, as Lis points out, self-imposed suffering has utility for spiritual growth only to the extent it clarifies rather than muddies introspection.

Very nice post, Hugo!

figleaf

figleaf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem arises as well, of course, when people take hedonistic pleasure in&#8230; self-denial and suffering.  I think it&#8217;s, um, significant that that particular self-indulgence is, well, particularly common in the States.</p>
<p>Also, as Lis points out, self-imposed suffering has utility for spiritual growth only to the extent it clarifies rather than muddies introspection.</p>
<p>Very nice post, Hugo!</p>
<p>figleaf</p>
<p>figleaf</p>
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		<title>By: Agnieszka</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507614</link>
		<dc:creator>Agnieszka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507614</guid>
		<description>Love the blog post and the title in particular: says it all so well. 

I can imagine it becoming a best-seller by that title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the blog post and the title in particular: says it all so well. </p>
<p>I can imagine it becoming a best-seller by that title.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507591</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/03/11/god-is-not-impressed-by-the-orgasm-you-didnt-have-of-sin-lent-therapy-and-rod-dreher/#comment-507591</guid>
		<description>Also, I'm now off to read the Dreher piece. I'm sure that'll make everything clearer. Thanks and blessings, and some days, I DO love your blog. I just never, ever say "BTW." :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I&#8217;m now off to read the Dreher piece. I&#8217;m sure that&#8217;ll make everything clearer. Thanks and blessings, and some days, I DO love your blog. I just never, ever say &#8220;BTW.&#8221; :)</p>
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