Hugo Schwyzer

9 Responses to “Guest post at Scarleteen”

1. 1 Funt Of A Thousand Faces
   Nov 9th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

   I read it and I’ve got two question. Where does having sex with people whom there is no chance or desire for a relationship from either party (friends with benefits, one night flings, etc.) fall in this discourse? Also since masturbation is not frowned upon, what purpose does it serve at it’s best? Is it simply not optimal but permissable or does it have a postive place? And yes, no infidelity is involved in any of these scenarios.

2. 2 Hugo Schwyzer
   Nov 9th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

   If you read through the ethics series of which this post is a part, I think that uncommitted sex in which there is no assumption of responsibility for the other party’s feelings as a consequence of sexual activity is more problematic.

   Masturbation I’ve dealt with before on the blog. I think where masturbation can cross a line for a Christian is with the accompanying fantasy; Scripture is crystal clear on adultery. Fantasizing about someone whom you know to be married or otherwise committed is, I think, short of the mark, as is being married or otherwise committed and masturbating to thoughts of someone other than one’s partner.

   Ultimately, what matters is how we treat ourselves, how we treat others, and how we love God. (Deut. 6:5; Matthew 22:37, etc.) We can fulfill the greatest commandment and be masturbators; we can fulfill the greatest commandment and have sex before marriage. I don’t think we can fulfill the greatest ccommandment in the best possible way and be adulterers.

3. 3 Funt Of A Thousand Faces
   Nov 9th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

   Totally with ya’ on the last paragraph.

   Re: the first, who said anything about having no responsibility for the other person’s feelings? I both parties are clear about what they want……and it ain’t a relationship……que problema?

   If you’ve already answered this then would you please direct me to which entry you did that in?

4. 4 Hugo Schwyzer
   Nov 9th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

   I dealt with it here, very recently: http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/10/30/reprint-sex-ethics-and-being-there/

5. 5 Funt Of A Thousand Faces
   Nov 9th, 2009 at 7:38 pm

   Hmmmmm. I can’t imagine that anyone would claim that more casual relationships are up there with marriage on the commandment fulfilling scale but there seems to be a lot of arguable gray area here as to how problematic such relationships are. For now I’ll leave it at that.

6. 6 Hugo Schwyzer
   Nov 9th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

   Remember that the Scarleteen post was written in an explicitly Christian context — not binding in the same way on non-Christians, like the 600-odd mitzvot aren’t all binding on we goyim.

7. 7 SamSeaborn
   Nov 9th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

   Hugo,

   personal question - personal for me that is. Interesting how your posts sometimes really hit a spot for me… a female friend recently asked me over to her place for coffee - she’s like a sister to me and she’s been married for a couple of years. Now she tells me how she’s sexually unhappy in her marriage that she’s wondering about cheating… and obviously felt very guilty about those thoughts. I’ve liberated myself quite a bit from my Catholic guilt, but this is a dilemma for me.

   Is there a morally sound way of action for her when she wants to be with her husband (whom I don’t know as closely as her) but he can’t give her what she wants sexually and she can’t even speak to him about this, otherwise she wouldn’t turn to me to talk about these things… her happiness is important to me, and her happiness is very likely tied to a morally sound solution of this issue. So, as someone who has clearly thought about this kind of problem - if you have any idea how to address something like this, I’d really appreciate a brief reply. Thanks!

8. 8 glendenb
   Nov 10th, 2009 at 10:43 am

   Hugo - I thought your response was very thoughtful and appropriate. In particular, I think the distinction you drew between “content” and “form” of sexuality would be helpful - biblically, I think there’s strong support for the idea that consenting, mutual, non-exploitive, relationships of equals are preferred over other types of relationships - those of course are relationship qualities rather than forms.

   I think, however, that you missed addressing one very important point. The questioner wrote: “I know that God will not love me any less or be disappointed in me, but if you sacrifice something for God, it will be so much better for you in the end.” This sentence seems to me to make a set assumptions about not only the nature of sacrifice but the reasons for it. For instance, being a nice Catholic school boy, I always find Lent a challenging season, a time to engage meaningfully in a process of sacrifice - giving something up as a way of making room for something else. But in this sentence, the writer is framing sacrifice in very different way - you give something up simply because you are supposed to but there’s no meaning or reason behind it. Sacrifice, in this sense, is about obedience to an authority which demands sacrifice rather than a sacramental form of sacrifice in which we engage in the process to experience personal growth. Understood that way, I think the issue of sacrifice becomes a question of meaning making - if you are giving up sex until marriage, what is the meaning that will arise form that experience? If you are not having sex, then how are you relating to one another and is that deepening your relationship? Is waiting for marriage creating deeper meaning in your relationship or is it simply an act of obedience to someone else?

   I think this statement about sacrifice arises from the same understanding of relationships as a situation (that I think you blogged about) in which a pastor challenged the married couples in his congregation to have sex every night for 30 days. The focus is entirely on the act of sex - not on the relationship context in which that sex is taking place.

9. 9 Hugo Schwyzer
   Nov 10th, 2009 at 10:45 am

   Glen, if I’d had more space with which to work in that Scarleteen piece, that would have been an excellent tack to take. You’ve inspired me — when I get a chance, probably next week, I’ll examine “sacrifice” and the rhetoric of abstinence, marital sexual obligation, and so forth. Thanks.